Job Discussion Forums

[glasshouses]

I have a friend who left the course mid-course because it was so prescriptive. I'm not a European, but is CELTA a very prescriptive course?

This school did some damage to the self-esteem of a newbie to the business. I've been in ESL for 14 years in 6 countries. There's a synergy in the class based on the students you have, their needs, the curriculum, the weather, time of day, etc., etc.

I have not found THE way to teach ESL--there are so many methods. I understand using an expectable structure every lesson or most lessons, but she said they preached that this course is THE WAY.

Have I been wrong all these years?

[Kent F. Kruhoeffer]

No, you haven't been wrong all these years, imho. I agree with what you wrote.

That's why I've stayed away from the certificate circus all these years.


For people just starting out with no clue, it's a different story.

I think it really depends where you're coming from.


Please tell your friend not to give up.


CELTA et al. is a for-profit business,

not the sole path to Nirvana.






Bangkok in Focus

[william wallace]

15 years and 4 countries and I suspected as much about the Celta.
Cheers,and I agree with Kent.

[Jetgirly]

I think that if you stick to the methodology prescribed by the CELTA you'll have a really good foundation to build on when you're in your own classroom. Your employer will always have a unique set of demands, your students will always have different wants and needs, and every teacher brings his or her personality into the classroom. The CELTA is a good one-size-fits-all first step, and I'm surprised that someone couldn't see past their trainer's pro-CELTA propaganda to see that.

[coffeedrinker]

I did the celta and to some extent, yes, it focuses on "its" format.

I think there are plenty of people who don't like that, but really, it's like giving students in a class a writing assignment "write about both sides of the argument and explain why the other side is wrong" - and someone comes back with a paper that doesn't fit that and says "but I know a journalist, and he says you don't have to write about the other side - you can write however you want." Sure - but the point is to look at this one way, with this one assignment, try to do it and see how well you can. As a student, you're not a journalist, and the celta doesn't look at its trainees as experienced teachers either.

It's a four week course. Would it be better to tell new people to do what they feel or something?

You listen to what they say, practice doing it, and then in a month you get your certificate and leave. Then you can experiment...and being able to adjust to all the things the OP mention (which I agree ARE important) comes with experience. If a course was teaching that, it would be prescriptive too, wouldn't it?

I also observed other teachers - at the school offering the celta - and saw that they didn't follow some rigid format that newbies try to do in the course. They also used some of the the techniques taught really effectively.

People sometimes seem so excited to bash the celta - and I just don't see why it matters that much. Are other four-week courses really not prescriptive? I guess I'd be most willing to listen to someone who actually had experience of both the celta and some other similar certificate...but that's pretty rare, so it just comes down to people arguing "for" the one they have and "against" whatever they don't.

[spiral78]

I obviously don't want to make any judgements about the particular 'damaged newbie' in question or the specific course he/she was on.

And I don't have a CELTA, but took a comparative general TEFL course, and have worked on three training courses since.

I think the key here is 'damaged the self-esteem of...' To me, this could either indicate that feedback was done poorly (big bad trainers, treating the little newbies too roughly - honestly, some of them DO get off on power trips). OR it might indicate that the newb was not a person who is used to receiving/accepting criticism.

Good entry-level courses are challenging - the expectations that trainees will conform is reasonable to a large extent. As another poster pointed out, you do the thing for a month, and then you're free to apply your personal creativity, experience, personality, and etc to your efforts.

Feedback and criticisms are found in the real world of TESL/TEFL, not just the training course. Very often, so are expectations that the teacher will fit into a prescribed teaching format/method/syllabus. It's not unrealistic to expect trainees to conform for a month on a course.

[dribom]

Hey, I got my CELTA a year ago and have just finished up a year of working in Ecuador. (I had my position before I did the CELTA so I just did it for some extra practice).

The CELTA is definitely recognized, but if I prepped, taught, or thought like they make you during the course I would have NO students and be out of a job.

Very possibly it works better with students from a different culture, but I don't think it's going to help much if you teach in Latin America.

I found my course very demoralizing and so did everybody else in it. It wasn't just the fact that they had a very prescriptive formula (I think to a certain extent people are right to point out that learning a formula is reasonable - you can improvise once you have experience). The trainers (I won't say teachers, because real teachers improvise) really stomped on people.

My impression was that this was a product of these particular individuals being trapped in the world of the private language institute, and frustrated with their jobs. There was one girl in particular who had a good career but wanted the training because she did volunteer work with refugees. Boy did they resent her. Similar phenomenon with me, though to a lesser degree.

The up side is that they do give you a fair opportunity to practice teach.

Of course, this is limited to one hour lessons.

All in all I think CELTA makes sense for its rep, especially if you are going to be teaching at an institute. If you are going to be teaching at an actual school though I think you need a real background in education - maybe university extension certificates are better for that.

[merlin]

I was lucky enough to take the CELTA under some fairly well-known names in the business, so they'd been around the block and knew there were alternatives.

Having a nightmare experience would have more to do with the trainers and less to do with CELTA per se.

As with any other class, teachers can enlighten or destroy students in any subject.

[coffeedrinker]

Looking at these posts (and reflecting more on my course) it strikes me that it is probably a lot harder - as in more frustrating - to do an introductory course after you've already taught.

I don't look at it as a problem with the course itself, but I do realize that I would also probably have a harder time going along with the format of an introductory teaching course now that I've taught for a while...I guess I take this to mean - do a course before you start - or if you take one later, try to keep in mind that it is an introductory course.

[dmb]

You have to remember that in some countries you need a recognised teaching certificate in order to be legal.

[Kent F. Kruhoeffer]

DMB is right.


In view of that, I would like to amend my earlier statement as follows:

I think it really depends where you're coming from ... and where you're going.




Bangkok in Focus

[Gordon]

When I did my CELTA I already had about 3-4 years of teaching under my belt. I went into it with an open mind and took in everything they said. I didn't always agree, but I accepted their opinion and tried to adapt my style to theirs as much as possible. I wasn't there to argue, like many of the other trainees, the course was too expensive to waste my money on. I am glad I had that attitude or I would have been miserable.

The upside of having some previous teaching experience is that I could concentrate on certain aspects of my teaching rather than learn everything. In other words, I could hone my skills more.

[glasshouses]

Thanks colleagues out there for your thoughtful responses.

The course in question at St Giles incidentally had a university professor drop out after two weeks because the course was so prescriptive. My friend who dropped out said they stomped on her there.

Sorry folks, there's no panacea to teach ESL. There's no panacea to education. We all know there are wrong ways to teach, but there are so many right ways, it boggles the mind. If you're doing one way and it works for you, so be it...

After 14 years, if I ever stumble upon THE WAY, I should retire, because I have, in fact, lost the way.

[GambateBingBangBOOM]

[coffeedrinker]

I don't think anyone here is saying there is only one way to teach ... it seems a little unrealistic to expect a four-week course to cover "all the ways of teaching"...