Job Discussion Forums

SnoopBot · Joined: 21 Jun 2007 Posts: 740 Location: USA

I received a reply from a Middle-East job today that stated the reason why I was not selected (5 openings) was the fact I had spent too much time teaching in China. I was on the short-list and had an interview.

I didn't make the final cut and found out teachers in Korea and Taiwan were selected.

For some reason they told me they rejected any applicants from China or Thailand.

The message received was this , "We based our decision on the fact that most of your recent experience teaching in China, we feel that teaching responsibilities in China do not meet the rigid requirements for this position."

???

I've heard of other places doing this too, HK's NET program wouldn't hire Chinese PRC based teachers because of these reasons. It comes down to the fact we are usually only used to teach Oral English subjects.

However, I did much more than this. IELTS, TOEFL prep, Business lectures ect.

These positions are the better ones that require a Masters degree in Education and TESOL.

How many of you have had this same experience? Is long-term Chinese experience now considered a career killer?

HunanForeignGuy · Joined: 05 Jan 2006 Posts: 989 Location: Shanghai, PRC

therock · Joined: 31 Jul 2005 Posts: 1266 Location: China

eslstudies · Joined: 17 Dec 2006 Posts: 1061 Location: East of Aden

SnoopBot, my experience was that China was a help rather than an obstacle.
When I returned to Australia, I was not keen to re-enter the concrete jungle of secondary teaching unless on my own terms, so I applied for a 10 week contract in a migrant English centre. The fact that I had recently completed post grad TESOL, and had lived [nb, rather than worked], in China was the edge I had in the interview. After that very satisfying stint, I won another, this time in a university foundation program, and for much the same reasons. A demonstrated ability to adapt to a different culture. as well as an empathy for L2 learners were what the interviewers were looking for, academics aside.
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Then I was able to land the high school ESL position of my choice, again on the back of the same experience and qualifications. This is one of the best ESL positions in my country, and $30,000 pa ahead of what the other two paid.

Incidentally, 40-50% of my students in each of the above settings have been Chinese [ inc. Taiwan and HK]; in fact, one current class is entirely made up of Chinese kids on student visas, or here with their families as business migrants. I have always felt advantaged by my time in China. That's where I'll head back soon, and begin my retirement with a final year's work, which would make sense to those who have taught in their home countries!

BTW, there are several posters on these forums who went to HK from the mainland, although I suspect at least two identities are the same poster.
HKers [expats particularly] like to look down their noses at anything mainland, except when they go on their weekend shopping forays over the border. Their precious attitude is ironic, given their own economy "treading water", especially when compared to the mainland boom. Also, considering Chinese HKers wide exposure to English, I'm surprised at how poorly many of them speak it!

jwbhomer · Joined: 14 Dec 2003 Posts: 876 Location: CANADA

I would tend to agree with what eslstudies says above. As mentioned in a previous post, I was interviewed for a position with the Hong Kong Vocational Training Council. As I said in a thread in the HK forum, I didn't get the job -- there was some disagreement on other matters -- but I think my three years of experience in China was a factor in getting the interview, and the interviewers commented favourably on that.
The key, I would suggest, is what kind of organization (is that the wrong word to use in the same sentence as "China"?) you worked for. I had taught at two reputable universities. If I had worked for a mill it might have been a different matter.

eslstudies · Joined: 17 Dec 2006 Posts: 1061 Location: East of Aden

naturegirl321 · Joined: 04 May 2003 Posts: 9041 Location: home sweet home

China.Pete · Joined: 27 Apr 2006 Posts: 547

"the reason why I was not selected was the fact I had spent too much time teaching in China." - Snoop Bot

China employs a lot of Westerners with no teaching experience and provides them with little formal training. My impression is that this has resulted in a large number of FTs who have no clue about how TEFL is done in the rest of the world. By eliminating applicants from two of the largest TEFL markets - China and Thailand - the school in question was left with a more exclusive list of applicants to choose from. No way of knowing whether quality concerns or sheer laziness had more to do with it.

"The fact that I had recently...lived in China was the edge I had..." - Esl Studies

Your Aussie qualifications would have trumped any doubts they might have had about your professional skills. Therefore, while I'm not yet convinced that China experience is always such a negative, I don't think your experience can necessarily speak to the stigma Snoop found attached to those of us who have worked here.

eslstudies · Joined: 17 Dec 2006 Posts: 1061 Location: East of Aden

Naturegirl, I didn't say I wasn't working; indeed I was. It was the aspect of living in a non-Western culture that the interviewers took into account. After all, we all know that almost anyone can get a job teaching in China.
And China.Pete, I was answering the question in the thread's title. I've got no doubt there are many more people teaching ESL in their home, or other English speaking, countries than there are teaching EFL abroad. In my limited experience, having lived and worked abroad - China in my case - opened employment doors.

7969 · Joined: 26 Mar 2003 Posts: 5782 Location: Coastal Guangdong

naturegirl321 · Joined: 04 May 2003 Posts: 9041 Location: home sweet home

HunanForeignGuy · Joined: 05 Jan 2006 Posts: 989 Location: Shanghai, PRC

jwbhomer · Joined: 14 Dec 2003 Posts: 876 Location: CANADA

I'm surprised by HFG's observation that this has been a good hiring season for FTs. I don't see any increase in positions vacant ads here at Dave's. Meanwhile, I've just heard from a colleague at the last uni I taught at, in GZ, that they are letting all but one of their FTs go and not replacing them. This is of no concern to me as I'm no longer in China or looking to return, but I do wonder now what the job market/labour pool is really like.

william wallace · Joined: 14 May 2003 Posts: 2869 Location: in between

Not surprised. When I arrived it was not about career move, just that it was off the beaten track. Now, it seems it is the beaten track.

China.Pete · Joined: 27 Apr 2006 Posts: 547

"(O)ne very presigitious university wanted to hire me...but then at least three departments within the university went into a bidding war." - HFG

This may not be evidence of plenty; but a symptom of the problem. You were caught in a bidding war, not because of a shortage of FTs, but because the university found that you were actually well-qualified. Schools that care about such things can be downright desperate to get you. But the general perception at many of the schools is that most FTs are only capable of teaching Oral English - and even that not always well.

"(T)his summer, if you are a warm, white body...you can still find a respectable job in China." - HFG

Yes, it seems that, for now at least, there are still quite a few jobs for FTs in China. But those of us who lack the right qualifications beware! And those who are not securely ensconced in a well-paid sinecure watch out! The coming of the Olympics or a booming economy may delay the inevitable day of reckoning. But, except for the usual language mills, the day of the backpacker-cvm-lecturer here in China will sooner or later come to an inglorious end.