Job Discussion Forums

[Jetgirly]

I didn't know what to look for when I signed my first teaching contract. In particular, the contract outlined the rate of pay for overtime hours, but it didn't state whether or not overtime was mandatory. This became a huge issue for me when, as a teacher with two months' experience, I was suddenly expected to spend up to thirty-nine hours in the classroom each week. Ultimately, after a horrible nervous breakdown in which my parents came to visit and tried to get me to come back to Canada, I put my foot down and limited my availability. When the next school year began I was shocked to find that I was given the same contract with the same salary, despite the fact that I now had experience teaching the school's entire curriculum. I took the contract home and never bothered to sign it or return it. I taught from September to April with no contract, having the same rights and responsibilities as the previous year, but without feeling tied down. I gave the school two weeks' notice and left. They thought I was going home because I was sick (I did an Ayurvedic detox and went from about 145 pounds to 115 in three months) but I was actually going back to school. I am REALLY glad I didn't sign that second contract, and even though it wouldn't have stopped me from leaving it made me feel a little bit less guilty. As I was paid hourly, I also gave the minimum amount of notice possible because I knew my hours would immediately be reduced as they started moving my students to other teachers. Hey, a girl's gotta make a living...

[merlin]

Dolmie, you can try to twist it around but in your OP you stated:

[dolmie]

Justin, I feel your pain. In the absence of laws to protect you, teachers can flake out and leave their colleagues and students in the lurch. I like what you said, Justin, about giving one's word, and fulfilling it, because you said so. It's simple--like we learned when we were little--we said we'd do something, so we do it (except in the worst situations).

Jetgirly--I'm sorry you had such an unfortunate experience--working abroad can damage a person. I hope you bounce back soon.

Travellingaround--I had couched that argument and you read it exactly as I had meant it. I think you're absolutely right, though. In almost all cases, nobody should allow themselves to not get paid. My personal belief is that for some people who can afford it, if you don't get paid for a few weeks here and there in a developing country, so be it. That doesn't work for everybody--I made a bit of a stretch on that one.

Merlin, I thought that if I looked at all your arguments and countered them, that you might be worthy enough to pick up the gauntlet. I'm sorry, but you've lost me on your train of logic and have made me tired--moreover, you haven't done me the courtesy of reading my arguments--I'm out with you...

There is a dignity to teaching, and I need to remind myself in hard times that although what we do is not so very very important, it has importance. There is a dignity to the career, and one is either dabbling in it, or in for the long haul.

[merlin]

[Stephen Jones]

I think merlin has made a pretty good case. Why dolmie feels being mistreated increases his professional status amazes me.

If I work for a plumbing firm that mistreats me should I keep on working for them for the good of all the people who would be without water if I left?

[dolmie]

Let's not get silly here, Stephen...

No offence to plumbers, but we're not plumbers.

Step up to the plate folks--if you sign on the line, and it's not quite what you expected, take your lumps like an adult, learn, then move on... If that's not something you can do, I pity your colleagues who will have to pick up after you, and your students once you walk out on them...

We can rationalize every crappy thing we do in this world--at some point, we have to take responsibility for our decisions, even if they don't always go our way.

If your philosophy finds a way NOT to hurt others, so be it...

[coffeedrinker]

There's a difference between "it's not quite what you expected" and the school violating terms of your contract and exploiting your sense of obligation (or your need to have regular employment) to get you to put up with it and they continue to profit off of your work.

I still think teachers need to realize their actions have consequences (as do schools - and sometimes the way they see that is when teachers leave and don't just put up with it), but lots of schools are profit-making businesses and not charitable organizations, and the bottom line is the income. The schools aren't always concerned morality.

Maybe teachers shouldn't take money for their work at all - that means students who don't have money can't learn - is it immoral to get paid? To ask for a raise? To finish your contract and move to a job where you make more money when you could sign on again offer your skills to the same students next year?

I think this sense of right and wrong being black and white is an oversimplification.

[Stephen Jones]

[dolmie]

Stephen, I`m not sure how you could glean from my comment that I am better than a plumber--was it your own transference?--it was your apples and oranges argument I was countering.

No, it`s obvious that we are not plumbers, nor are we priests, surgeons nor bricklayers.

I maintain that although our job is not the most important in the world, it is important and should be treated with a certain dignity. When you break your word to someone in a business situation, you debase yourself (unless the reasons for which are egregious). Again, if things aren`t going well, you`re an adult, take your lumps, learn, then move on--you don`t bail on your students. I`m not sure why you want to defend so much your rights to break your word, but that`s your own monkey on your back.

I sense that you did not have a calling to teaching, `a vocation` as you call it. I did, and you can try to belittle a vocation, but you are belittling the thousands of educators who teach because they were called to it. Before you accuse of me of saying that this makes me feel better than you, because I had a calling to it, and you did not, does not change your competence in a class.

Now, I really know you`re silly. Are you sure you`re not just Merlin using a different name? Your writing styles are the same.

Coffeedrinker, come on now--it is absurd to suggest that we all work for free--were you born at Woodstock or something? You say I oversimplify things? Hey, if people want to teach for free in developing countries, more power to them... If someone else wants top dollar at an IB school, so be it...

[coffeedrinker]

I was using that example to illustrate that I think using morality is opening a can of worms, and while it sounds nice to be able to say we are on the side of morality, we probably do not actually believe everything that goes down that road.

Just as one might argue that it's immoral to leave a contract when your students need you, someone could also say it's immoral to avoid teaching somewhere because they don't pay enough. What if those students need you too, or more?

I don't agree with these interpretations of morality, but if you are using that as the main reason teachers should not end their contracts, why should it not apply further?

I think teachers should be responsible about ending contracts and should try to avoid it. But I think "morality" can be twisted and turned to suit whoever is using it, and I don't agree that teachers are bound by morality to put up with dishonest or bad employers.

[merlin]

[dolmie]

When you talk to people who argue semantics, two things happen: you get frustrated; the real matter never gets discussed. Semantics fighters don`t survive relationships and marriage well, and there is no surprise in that. I am not sure why some of you are so afraid of keeping your word when times are tough. There are certain times in life that are defining for an individual--a defining act.

It`s so simple. There are people who take their lumps like adults, learn, and move on, and then, there are others who break and run, and rationalize all the way how it was someone else`s fault. There are people with whom we all like to work--we trust them, and know that they will not leave us in the lurch--then, there are people who rationalize why they break contracts (egregious contract problems excepted).

The original intent of this post was to let new teachers know that admin and colleagues don`t appreciate when you break contracts with them; moreover, that students and their progress are affected. I gave several conditions where it was okay, but none of which was, "I was getting a little down."

Cans of worms get opened by people who like to open cans of worms--there is a fun in that--to think that you can win an argument, without actually discussing the elephant in the room.

[merlin]

When you talk to people who just believe they are right just becuase they think they are right two things happen. First they get confused because their brain short curcuits by logical arguments that tear apart the fragile and irrational world they have built around themselves. Then they get frustrated because they can't use brute force to lock others into their limited world view.

It's so simple. Semantics means the meanings of words. Why would a person engage in a discussion where words have no meaning? That makes no sense at all.

Chumps take lumps, never learn, and move on to be exploited again and rationalize why they should displace their anger against those who beak free from the bonds of exploitation. The chumps never never learn and again sign an exploitive contract and get shat on by their exploiters and again displace their anger towards those who refuse to be exploited.

I understand the original intent of dolmie's post - it was a befuddled attempt by a working class serf, slave, plebe, etc to dictate to the world what he understands morality to mean. If Dolmie were a slave he'd be the one whipping the other slave for running away and all the time taking pride in the fact that he was a "good" slave. Yes, apples and oranges but both fruit.

Dolmie - If you've been dumped on by other teachers more than once one would think you'd have LEARNed SOMETHING and not work for an employer who not only tends to hire people who dump on their colleagues, but who also can't even do enough forward planning to cover his schedule adequately. I worked for such an establishment ten years ago, learned from the experience and never looked back (I fulfilled my contracts, BTW). My current emplyment contract can be cancelled by either party without notice.

You see, over the years I've learned a thing or two and neither burden myself with nor hide behind contracts and I only work with people of similar morality.

[dolmie]

As much as I disagreed with Merlin's very callous dog-eat-dog philosophy, I am now eating my words.

Yes, there are times where if you stick it out in a job for the kids, you are eaten alive by a school machine, and it may damage you or health, your relationships, marriage, personal integrity, etc.
What is more important? You, your family, your health.
Officially eating words now.

The kids don't come first. We do; that is, our health, integrity, marriage or relationships, and permanent damage we may cause ourselves through a rupture in any of the above. Stick it out as long as you can for the kids, but do not damage yourself.

[coffeedrinker]

I have to say I respect you for coming back to post that.

I hope things work out okay for you - it sounds like you are looking out for yourself as you should be, and so they will.