Job Discussion Forums

Symphany · Joined: 10 Aug 2006 Posts: 117

Hello folks

I have a question for new hands and seasoned pros in China alike. I have just come back from teaching a year in Japan and now I would like to consider trying to teach in China. It seems like it would be really interesting, but it doesn't pay as much (as in Japan) on average. I understand that there are differences between Japan's and China's economies that result in the exchange rate that exists now. I'd really like to give TEFL in China a chance, but I have to consider the personal economics of the situation. Now's the question: does the pay scale rise considerably once you have an advanced degree or two under your belt? Can someone make a living comparable to that of an eikawa job in Japan, a Hogwan in Korea, or a Bushiban in Taiwan, even? Or daresay even more? How has your experience been? I'm also curious about work conditions, and whether or not those improve with an MA or a PhD? I am considering an MA in Ed or Applied Linguistics, are universities and colleges okay with teachers specializing in those areas, or are they looking for teachers with qualifications in the traditional arts and letters -- linguistics, history, English, philosophy etc? Stories of your own success or that of people you have directly observed are welcome. If results have been less than you have expected feel free to share those experiences as well.

naturegirl321 · Joined: 04 May 2003 Posts: 9041 Location: home sweet home

From the adverts that I've seen a grad degree may get you about 500 extra a month. RMB that is.

I think to make a lot of money as a teacher in China, you have to go to an international school or teach business or have really good connections.

james s · Joined: 07 Feb 2007 Posts: 676 Location: Raincity

brsmith15 · Joined: 12 May 2003 Posts: 1142 Location: New Hampshire USA

I hate to sound a tad evasive, but so much depends on the type of school. There are the public schools (primary, middle, high) which can range from the abysmal to the enlightened, the chains like English First and Delter/Telfort (stay away from most of these unless you're desperate and enjoy pain), university (again, the top ones like Tsinghua, Peking, Fudan are truly enjoyable), some form of joint venture like a master's program between a Chinese uni and a foreign one. For the two latter ones, yes, a higher degree not only helps, but is usually required.

This also depends a lot on the locale. Some teachers favor the small, rural towns because that's the "real China." In those places, your pay will be low even if you hold 2 doctorates, because there simply isn't enough money to go around.......except what the local govt officials steal, that is. But, you get friendly people who honestly appreciate what you're doing for their children. The cities? They're big, noisy, hot, dirty, but give you the feeling you're not in China so much as an international mecca.

I teach at China's top financial university and have an MBA as well as years of experience in teaching, lecturing, writing, consulting. I get paid very well, but could earn even more if I'd completed my PhD, which I didn't because, at that time, I never considered teaching as a career.

Oh, and a master's in ed? People who can, do. People who can't, teach. People who can neither do not teach, teach how to teach. People I know, especailly those in education regard an MA-ED as worthless and a PhD-ED even moreso. But, a friend of mine who has a BSEE and an MBA got his doctorate in education because he said it was the easiest one he could find.

Me? I'd do one in theoretical particle physics or psycho-neurology.

william wallace · Joined: 14 May 2003 Posts: 2869 Location: in between

Cheers James !

Sean Smith · Joined: 11 Sep 2006 Posts: 9

If you are genuinely interested in learning more about teaching methodology and linguistics and becoming more professional in your job, then do an M.A. in TESOL/Applied Linguistics. Don't worry about other people disparaging it. Because it is an important industry the study of it is slowly becoming more respectable and more legitimate.

I would also say it depends on what kind of M.A. or MEd TESOL/Applied Linguistics Degree you get. Take the online/Distance Ed. Degree from the University of Southern Queensland in Australia, for example. That is acknoweldged to be the cheapest, and with no Dissertation to write, the easiest route to a "real" Master's. If you actually attend and do your Master's at a respectable university in the U.S., U.K. or whatnot, that has more credibility.

As far as income, an M.A. TESOL Degree matters a lot in Korea as English Education is becoming more professionalized there. They are rewarding people who have actually studied English Education and linguistics. With a Master's Degree I obtained a university job and my pay was double that of my language school job for teaching less hours, not to mention the 14 weeks paid vacation. In fact these days, if you don't have a Master's in something it's very hard to get a job at a university in Seoul. With an M.A. TESOL Degree, more doors open.

The Chinese education system is not as developed yet and those with M.A. TESOL Degrees are not yet paid significantly higher than someone with a B.A. in history or a B.Sc. in biology. But just as in Japan 15 years ago and as in Korea in the last 5 years, those days will come. I'm taking a big pay cut, leaving Korea, and going to China for the experience. The big money might be in China eventually and it might not, but I wouldn't come primarily for that goal.

Anda · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 2199 Location: Jiangsu Province

You should state how much you were earning in Japan along with how much you were saving, to have people give you a comparison. I would say you were on something like 270,000 Yen a month and you had to find your own accommodation and you were saving next to nothing.

South Korea pays the best usually in regards to saving but if you want to live it up a bit then it's on par with here in China.

You are not stating what type of students you want to teach. You can earn up to 12,000 RMB here teaching elementary students but only get 5,000 for an average university job. Now on 12,000 RMB you are as good here as anywhere else. Do you want to teach at an international school? Then you will need a teacher's standing / certification in your home country which can beat your higher degrees in pay pretty often.

Now pay packets have come down in teaching English in Japan, South Korea and China along with a lot of other places so I wouldn't be wasting my time on getting a higher education with English teaching in mind only.
Get yourself certified as a teacher in another field as a back up and then come and teach English or better still come and teach now and study part time by distance education.

HunanForeignGuy · Joined: 05 Jan 2006 Posts: 989 Location: Shanghai, PRC

Without giving away the shop, I can tell you that Anda is exactly on the mark with his figures and his critique.

The "money" is in the primary and middle schools in the larger cities; if you want a lot of free time and the ablility to starve easily, then please choose a university. If, however, you are willing to moonlight, you could couple a job at a uni with other more handsomely compensated outside jobs and then you could have a comfortable life.

Many of colleagues simply do the middle school "shtick" in the larger cities and yes, most of them make a very decent salary.

It's useless to compare China / Korea / Japan in about the same manner as comparing apples to oranges. Sure, I have a good friend who makes Yen 250,000 per month in Japan now (strangely enough this was exactly the same salary that they paid 15 years ago in Japan); he has to pay his own rent, utilities, etc., etc., food. In most non-language mill jobs in China, all of that will be taken caren of and in the end, I would venture to say that a more than entry-level job, you could come close to saving here what you might save in Japan.

Compare the cost of milk for example : RMB 3.5 for one litre to Yen ???...

All the best,

HFG

Teatime of Soul · Joined: 12 Apr 2007 Posts: 905

It is possible that the financial "payoff" would be negligible.

However, along the lines of what Sean Smith pointed out, it is an opportunity to increase your professional skills.

In graduate school, you'll learn more, and more in depth than in undergrad school.

Classes are smaller and there is an atmosphere of collegiality. Your classmates can become part of your professional network for life.

Best of luck.

Symphany · Joined: 10 Aug 2006 Posts: 117

Thank you for your insightful posts. I would like to reiterate that I'm asking mainly whether pay and work conditions improve with a masters degree in China specifically, not whether or not it would be worthwhile to get a masters degree in general. Since I'm pretty much interested in studying what I'm interested in, not what someone else is, it really doesn't matter to me whether someone thinks a degree in MA TESOL, or Ed is a worthless degree, unless of course they are the person that is part of the hiring department of the school I am actually applying to. I believe I previously mentioned universities and colleges in my post, if I need to be more specific I'm interested in teaching adult students, of college/university age and up, and I'm more interested in teaching at a college or university for the experience, than in a private school. I actually am interested in going to China for the experience, so the pay is not such a deep motivator for me, I was just wondering if there were ways to gain a higher rate of pay than on average, because like most people, if you're going to give me more pay I'm not exactly going to run away from it. I actually want to invest in a degree for the personal worth, to know that I spent time learning some solid tried teaching methods which if learned properly, should work in China, as well as with other students in other countries, including my own, as I can't see myself at this point becoming an expat living the rest of her life out in China. Thank you all for your replies.

eslstudies · Joined: 17 Dec 2006 Posts: 1061 Location: East of Aden

Leon Purvis · Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 10:29 pm Post subject:

In the mid-tier public universities, you may see an advertised range which (I imagine) reflects a desired range of educational credentials. My school made no distinction between my advanced degree and teaching experience and the drunkard who lives in my building who has an online TESL degree and no teaching experience.

We get the same pay.

If you have a masters degree or a doctorate, you MAY see a difference in pay in the public universities if you are an English teacher. I imagine that if you were an MD (and teaching medicine) you'd see a considerable difference in pay in the medical schools.

FWIW

Symphany · Joined: 10 Aug 2006 Posts: 117

Thanks for the tips all.

Eslstudies, I'm curious, where is "home" for you? What sort of doors did your MA in applied linguistics open?

eslstudies · Joined: 17 Dec 2006 Posts: 1061 Location: East of Aden

Symphany, I did say it was a mere PG Diploma in TESOL.
However that, plus an education degree and quite a few years at the chalk front got me jobs in ELICOS, migrant education and now high school ESL.
The PG dip. [well, they said a cert. minimum] was a basic pre-req for all these jobs. I'm in Australia, where there's a healthy and growing ESL market.

arioch36 · Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 3589

In agreement with others, at best, you may see a 500 RMB increase a month, at best (really, a person with a B.S. can usually bargain for a similar salary).

Unfortunately, at 98% of the unis and high schools. you will not get an ounce of respect for your higher degree.

What makes this supremely ironical to me is that Chinese teachers with MS. or Phd degrees are in huge demand, because the gov't mandates that to be a "higher level college" or uni, the school has to have a certain number of Phd. profs, who actually do very lttle teaching, if any. The Chinese teachers who actually work hate this. (and are jealous of the superior housing benefits etc these "teachers" get)

Those of you who know the system, these students of Ms Phd blatantly copy previous work, in order to get published, and the journals are a joke, the articles often ghost written. But with a Phd, a chinese teacher can get as much as 10,000 per month, maybe a house paid by the college etc. A foreign teacher who has done legitamite research an work would be lucky to land 5,000 at the same university. ... (speaking of the social sciences, not the hard sciences , which in China actually have legit journals)

I would say that high schools in small cities pay at least as much if not more then their large city counterparts, likewise with universities. The top schools usually pay less.