Job Discussion Forums

[silasbilas]

If most employer-provided flats are in the furthest reaches of the metro system, can anybody tell me what the outer areas are like?

And does Moscow have the same rush hour, say from 7-10am and 5-6.30pm?

[mdk]

Well I always found Bibirevo to be a nice community, but other people might have said differently. Vladykino was also nice. I've heard some bad things about the southeast around Ryzanovsky Prospekt. Usually the school will not set you up in a dangerous neighborhood, but you still need to be as cautious as you would in any large city.

[rusmeister]

Not sure why you are so sure a school 'won't set someone up in a bad neighborhood". It's pretty random where they own apartments. Also, having lived in those northern parts of Moscow myself, I'd say the idea of 'nice' is not necessarily what, say, an American would consider nice.

There are pleasant places and moments that can change by the simple appearance of a few bored and drinking young men or a pack of wild dogs.

That said, I will agree that there are nice and nasty people everywhere. Just want to caution to people who haven't lived here that you have to radically change/lower your expectations, and then you sometimes get to be pleasantly surprised when you find something to be nicer than you expected.

[silasbilas]

thanks guys. any experience of the north west outer areas?

[mdk]

That would be around Rechnoi Voksal?


Seems alright to me - not much differenrt from any large city, but what would I know. I only lived there one winter.

I generally take the view that if people are out with baby strollers and babushkas are walking along with shopping bags, it's safe enough, but you never know ... that babushka could have a big knife waiting to steal your kidneys for the black market.

[spiral78]

I lived in a south-east district for a short while last year - just four months. The neighborhood's got kind of a bad rep. I was doing a training course for LUKOil and the students were quite surprised that I'd been located in Kuzminki.
Anyway, my experience was that it's ALWAYS rush hour in the metro, unless you're talking serious night hours weekdays. At least on the purple line, where I was living. In four months, I literally got a seat ONCE - and I was going into the centre around noonish and returning between 20 and 21.00 daily, definitely not what we'd think of as rush hours.
The dogs are a problem. I was there March - June and they were forming packs and I had a couple of incidents with my little dog being targeted. It was pretty dangerous.
I was also located in a quite nice tower just 5 minutes from the metro - and right next to a refugee barrack. Lots of seriously unattractive drunks and a couple of expired bodies as well during my stay.
I was pick-pocketed once, but that can really happen anywhere.

I would say another consideration was food shopping. The big supermarket at Kuzminki metro opens at 9.00, and by 10.00 it's already amazingly crowded, featuring at least half-hour waits for check-out, and that continues right up to closing. I always tried to be waiting when they unlocked the door, annoying the staff no end.

However, with all this, I can still say that I didn't feel that I was in danger - I honestly felt safer than I do in the States. Violent crimes are rarely random in Moscow (or so I believe) and I had no enemies there I also remember way more positive things about being in Moscow than I do negatives (despite the focuses of this post!). I think it would be tough to live there long-term, but I could make it for a year or two, I think.

[mdk]

I always shopped at the Perekrestok right next to the bibirevo and it was no worse than a Von's or a SaveMart. I never had any problem with the dogs anywhere in Moscow. There are always a pack of strays around the metro stations because people feed them.

The people at one of the metro stations on the ring line recently put in a memorial statue to one of the metro dogs who was very poplular. He was shot by some drunks.

The metro doesn't run from 1 AM to 5 PM so you have to time things accordingly.

What's to say. It's a big city and we have to use our big city skills while we are there.

[GF]

MDK, listening to you Moscow sounds like some sort of paradise. It's a great city but it has a very nasty side to it. During my five years there, I was robbed three times, twice by cops, and barely escaped from a fourth attempt. Three of my colleagues were physically attacked, one by cops, another by muggers and a third was beaten so badly that he had to go back to England for several months to recover (multiple broken bones). I have witnessed spontaneous fights on the street and in the metro, seen cops beating the living hell out of some unfortunate souls, and yes, stray dogs ARE a problem. Ask any Moscovite.

[rusmeister]

I'd support mdk in so far as it's not ALL bad. There are good things and people here. But most Americans, who aren't committed to living here, russifying, etc, (excluding tourists) tend to be overwhelmed by how different - mostly in a negative sense - things are or seem on the surface. This is NOT western Europe or the US.

I understand you have no more connections with Russia, mdk, but the last time I saw such strong praise, it was from someone who ran a school (which always need new teachers) here. (ie, infomercials) I'd guess that you had a really unusual experience, maybe in part because of who you are and your own life experience and expectations. But it's not the norm.

Now I live here and see the good, too. But then, I have russified - married, learned the language, put in many years here - in a word, I have committed. If you're on the outside of that, it's much less likely you'll have a star-studded experience. And btw, yes, drunken and dead bodies do happen here in a manner not encountered back 'home'.

[spiral78]

Hey, gimme credit, rusmeister - I don't think you read all the way through my post. Ok, I wouldn't want to live in Moscow permanently, but a year or two would be fantastic, based on my four months experience last year.

Frankly, I'd far prefer to live in Moscow in any US big city even for four months, much less permanently.

[mdk]

Well, I did see a dead body a couple of times in a traffic accident or two, but they clean them up pretty fast.

There are packs of pi dogs, that's true, but I've never heard of them bothering anybody and that is during three winters of Tomsk and one of Moscow. Most of the dogs I saw were Peke's being walked by somebody and were dressed in little dog coats. (If you look on the website you can see "mudball" who was the unofficial doorman at 4b Konenkova. You can see the little bed they put out for him.)

Tell you what, the gentle reader is welcome to come look at my Moscow pictures and decide for yourself. Notice that I live quietly and don't go looking for trouble -- like a normal Russian person does. If you are acting stupidly, Moscow is an excellent place to have somebody take you downtown and feed you your lunch.

www.flickr.com/Photos/MartinTheK/

Finally, when I returned to the states in 05 within 3 months two different strangers had offered to punch my lights out. That NEVER happened to me in Russia. I will say however, that I look enough like a Russian that strangers would frequently come up to me in Moscow and ask how to find some place. It's obviously a different place if you look like a foreigner.

Finally, I'm back in the states now working up a grubstake to return ( I am actually working the night shift right now on a med/surg floor and it's quiet). After I make my stake, I may go back to Moscow, or maybe Asturias. It depends on the way I am feeling.

[maruss]

Most Moscow suburbs were built during the Soviet era to house the proletariat(i.e. working classes)and consequently issues like attractive appearance and ecological factors were not taken into consideration or probably unheard of then!They were considered 'toolboxes' where they put the workers to sleep when their shift finished,hence the ugly and depressing appearance of many areas in Moscow and other towns in Russia that were constructed during the Communist era.
I have experienced or at least visited most Moscow suburbs and as a general rule,the south-east and south are worst,mainly for environmental and ecological reasons and this is borne out by Russians too.Consequently,the north-west and western suburbs are considered the best from a health point of view because there are less industrial plants and other sources of pollution there as well as the prevailing north-westerly winds which blow all the smog away across the central and south-eastern areas....
I lived for about 3 months in Marinsky Park in the winter of 2006,which is a bus ride from Lyublino metro and near the well-known'Moskva' shopping complex.Although virtually all this area is new and was built during the last 5 years or so,it is within sight of Kapotnya oil refinery and industrial complex which is one of the most notoriously polluted areas of Moscow and should be avoided at all costs!The air often stank of oil waste, depending on the wind direction and many of the kids who live near there have problems with their health,especially asthma and dermatitis and this affects adults too.
I previously lived in Zhivopisnaya ulitsa on the river bank opposite Strogino,which is supposedly one of the 'cleaner' areas in the north-west but nobody asks about possible contamination from the now defunct Kurchatov atomic research institute........
Worst of all in Moscow is the commuting on the metro and buses which are becoming dangerously overcrowded,especially during the rush hour and I fully agree about that awful purple line,having used the top end from Shchukinskaya-I gather the bottom end is worse!
So it's not just the quality of your flat that counts but the quality of where you live as an area and how far you have to travel everyday!
Personally,I would go for Sokol or maybe somewhere on the light blue line from Fili to Krylatskoye,but then again many of the metro stations on it are open air and in winter it is COLD!!!!

[spiral78]

So, Maruss, maybe it would be helpful to someone if we put together a set of criteria for newbies to Moscow to use when a school (or corporation) is going to arrange/help arrange housing.

The fact that I got 'stuck' in Kuzminki was because some wrong assumptions were made by the people making my arrangements.

They presumed that the 'Canadian' teacher would want to be as close as possible to a metro station (I'm entirely able-bodied and like walking), and that the flat should be all new and as large as possible (in fact, I'd have FAR preferred a smaller, older place closer to the centre or in a better district, so long as it was clean and safe and the stuff in it all worked).

So, I had a large, newly renovated flat right on top of Kuzminki metro station - but also right next to the refugee barrack, in one of the most crowded corners in the city (and that's saying something, for Moscow!), 45 minutes by metro from the centre (and 1 and a half hours on the Moscow metro daily isn't a picnic, especially on the purple line).

If I do it again (and I may) I'd stress that the neighborhood's important, more so than the size or newness of the flat - again assuming safe, clean, functioning.

Distance from a metro station - well, I know Moscow's very cold in winter, but how far can you reasonably walk, even in bad conditions? If I'm dressed properly, I can enjoy 10 or 15 minutes of even minus 30, and can endure even lower temps...

Length of time required on public transport daily is an important consideration. Check to see how your proposed metro line ranks in terms of (over) use - meaning you can assume it's going to be overused, but to what extent.

Anything else important?

[mdk]

All of this talk of how difficult the metro is. I have heard these things of -would you believe it? - London as well. But, if you tell me Moscow is the worst I will not argue, but point out the one great compensation - to count the supermodel candidates per railroad car. For instance, if there are three of them on the car with me, I count it as a triple.

[spiral78]

I wasn't comparing Moscow with any other city, just considering criteria I personally consider workable for living quarters in Moscow.

I know that the busses and trolleys are plentiful and cheap, but personally prefer not to have to change multiple times enroute home, particularly when carrying shopping, books, and etc.

Ice on the sidewalks is also not really related to housing criteria.

Further, I don't think the metro is 'difficult.' It's CROWDED but it runs, and it's far more efficient than public transport in any other city I've been in.

But back to HOUSING CRITERIA, I personally think it's better not to have to transfer much, and not to be spending substantial time on a crowded metro, like the 90 minutes I needed last year daily.