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User N. Ame
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 222
Location: Kanto
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 Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 2:06 pm Post subject: Re: This will be my last post |
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| J. wrote: |
| If I have an agressive tone it's because you've managed to fill your posts with insults |
J, really now, this is a bit hyperbolic, don't you think. Calm down a bit, go back and carefully read my posts in this thread, and tell me exactly where I issue insults to you or anyone else. Opinions, yes. Advice, yes. Obviously, I've touched some nerve with you, but I think those are issues you need to work out for yourself.
| J. wrote: |
| I do have frustrations, and as such have as much right to speak about them |
Of course you do! That's what discussion groups like this are for. But whether your rants are measured and accurate are a different matter.
| J. wrote: |
| The reason I mentioned gloves is because you made me feel like a punching bag. |
I can't control your perceptions. I'm sorry you feel this way. I really think I've touched on something that has absolutely nothing to do with me, but with deeply-held frustrations about your life in Japan.
| J. wrote: |
| I still don't agree with you about the "guests" thing. Since when are tax-payers and workers guests? That's just more semantics to dress up a far different reality and to justify poor treatment of migrant workers. |
Semantics? You think you have the rights of citizenship to be here? Were it not for the fact you have the necessary requirements (a BA), you'd still be back in your homeland wondering what life would be like working and living in Japan. You need a reality check, my friend. You are a guest, and you have absolutely no right to be here. I think your rather egocentric opinion on this matter may tell us lots about your previous comments.
Anyway, I think the OP has more than gotten what she intended out of this thread, so if you feel a need to vent further, I'm happy to read it via a PM.
Last edited by User N. Ame on Sat Jul 28, 2007 2:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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User N. Ame
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 222
Location: Kanto
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Sherri wrote: |
| Well, I just talked to my husband about this topic. He worked in the Japanese pharmaceutical industry for about 20 years and had to have a yearly physical for his company. He said the information is absolutely confidential. It was delivered in a sealed envelope and the results--no matter what--were not communicated to his supervisors or co-workers. He said it would have been illegal to do so. |
Yep, this is the tatemae (ie, official line), but the honne (reality) is that, often, this information gets shared and is handled rather loosely, especially by small town hospitals and doctors. I remember when the X-ray results from my physical arrived at school from the hospital, my kyoto-sen was flashing it around the staff room, giggling, saying I was healthy and had nothing to worry about. The ailments of co-workers at my school was openly discussed - if the topic was raised - in the tea room, ala, "Oh, you hear about Nani-sensei, he has x-disease".
There's nothing malicious about all of this. It's simply a cultural difference that foreigners have to get used to. |
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G Cthulhu
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 1373
Location: Way, way off course.
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 4:46 pm Post subject: Re: This will be my last post |
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| J. wrote: |
The reason I mentioned gloves is because you made me feel like a punching bag. Denying it makes not one whit of difference. The one who is aggressive here (albeit hiding in a passive persona ) is you.
I still don't agree with you about the "guests" thing. Since when are tax-payers and workers guests? That's just more semantics to dress up a far different reality and to justify poor treatment of migrant workers.
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It's not semantics. It's reality: you're not a citizen. You entered the country on their terms and remain in Japan under the terms they choose. Sure, voice your opinion about those terms all you want, but that doesn't change the reality that you entered and remain in the country on their terms. Either get on with dealing with that (and stop whining and complaining at the people pointing it out to you (& it's pretty rare I ever agree with UserName!)) or leave - for your own sanity over the long term (in any country), thems the only options you really have.
Right now, however, you really are coming across as a whiney little child. |
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Sherri
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 749
Location: The Big Island, Hawaii
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| User N. Ame wrote: |
| [There's nothing malicious about all of this. It's simply a cultural difference that foreigners have to get used to. |
It may happen, but it is against the law. I don't think it is something you just "have to get used to." In my previous post I wrote about what happened at a school I worked for. When the (non-Japanese) teachers complained, something was done--though I cannot say for a fact that the staff didn't look at the results first. At least it wasn't an open discussion topic like it was before. Also I never saw this happening with the Japanese employees where I worked (in 10+ years in the workplace). Have any of you?
At least in my husband's experience, it was not common practice and I checked with a friend whose husband works for a major car company where privacy is also honored. I do not think this is a matter you just have to get used to. When in Japan I agree you have to learn to balance your own cultural ideas with what is the cultural norm, but some things are open for change and debate. That is natural in any society. |
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J.
Joined: 03 May 2003
Posts: 327
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 11:49 pm Post subject: Changed my mind. |
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All quotes and amateur psychologizing curtesy User. N.Ame:
"J, really now, this is a bit hyperbolic, don't you think. Calm down a bit, go back and carefully read my posts in this thread, and tell me exactly where I issue insults to you or anyone else. Opinions, yes. Advice, yes. Obviously, I've touched some nerve with you, but I think those are issues you need to work out for yourself."
"J, your remark, "we are in Japan so we have to follow cultural rules thing" is getting really old is more reflective of your own culture frustrations and intolerance than anything said here."
"And that's why people like you don't last long living abroad, because you insist on living by your own rules. You have a really aggressive tone here, very defensive. You are harboring a lot of frustration about your life in Japan, and obviously, you want to get it out here."
"Of course, you're entirely free to rant on while in the country, about how bad the privacy is or whatever, but that only reflects on your inability to adapt and accept the cultural differences."
"I really think I've touched on something that has absolutely nothing to do with me, but with deeply-held frustrations about your life in Japan."
"I think your rather egocentric opinion on this matter may tell us lots about your previous comments."
"But whether your rants are measured and accurate are a different matter."
Thanks! I feel better already. |
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User N. Ame
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 222
Location: Kanto
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| Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:55 am Post subject: Re: Changed my mind. |
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| J. wrote: |
All quotes User. N.Ame:
[...]
Thanks! I feel better already. |
You're more than welcome. Anything I can do.... 
Otherwise, I think I'll quit while I'm ahead, agreements with G Cthulhu happen less frequently than blue moons. 
PS: Sherri, your husband is absolutely right and obviously represents a professional, experienced opinion. But I wonder how many people, Japanese or foreigner, have even used the law and filed a complaint with any success? In litigious, privacy-conscious USA, lawyers would be kept mighty busy and the lawsuit dollars would be flying fast and furious. The fact that medical records are discussed and shared in Japan, contrary to the law and without much outcry from citizens, points to a cultural tendency, not a legal one. Western doctors rarely cross the lines of privacy - because it's simply one of those sacred cows in Western culture. Privacy doesn't have nearly the same gravity in Japan, so sharing such information is seen less as a violation of law, and more as concern for the individual (and community).
Where schools are concerned, I completely understand why this happens - because knowledge of who has what disease allows school officials to prevent its spread among the student population. Again, the health of the group is as key as that of the individual.
Of course, all of this I preface with the assumed and obvious: it's just my opinion and based on my personal experience with the issue, and stuff I've read about it, and my Japanese partner seems to think its no big deal if my neighbour knows what kinds of pills I've been prescribed, etc... None of this means I enjoyed having my medical information shared alongside the gossip news of the day, but such is life in a foreign country. Putting the issue in its proper cultural context made dealing with it much easier, to the point, where it was a non-issue by the time I left the country. |
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elliewelliesj
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 65
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| Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 1:24 am Post subject: |
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Thanks again for more comments... as the OP I would like to say (as expressed before) that i was anxious about posting on here as I know sometimes people can be really brutal and sarcastic on here while trying to express their opinion. Now no one has directed that at me, and i am really grateful. But I am bit saddened that it has turned into a bit of a slanging match between 2 posters. But i guess it just shows how the topic is quite a debatable one. And perhaps close to people's hearts.
I am incredibly lucky that my "condition" that was discussed was simply tonsillitis, so certainly not personal - and had my employer asked me for more info or to speak to my doctor, I may well have agreed. It was more the point of it, the underhandedness etc.
Following my last post, I decided that it is still worth noting to Head Office that it isnt good procedure and that it made me feel very upset. But I wont go rushing in there, stomping and shouting now. I will simply try not to make a fuss and suggest things could be handled differently in the future. It may well not make a difference, but surely worth a suggestion.
As for the doctor, i guess writing a letter, in either bad Japanese or English that may be lost in translation, will probably not change things. So next time I have to see a doc, maybe ii will go to a different one - or if it happens to be a very personal matter I will try to make a point of it there and then to prevent my privacy from being leaked.
Its true we are here in a foreign country governed by different social rules etc, and we have to make choices as to how we accept it and how we react. And if it is really uncomfortable, perhaps you have to think about whether it is the right place to be. For me, the situation is over now, and could have been far worse or embarrassing, and now if i get too stressed over it, it will only ruin my time here. No one elses. I will lose.
So sorry for long final post but kinda wanted to conclude my story!
Thanks again... |
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Vince
Joined: 05 May 2003
Posts: 559
Location: U.S.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 5:38 am Post subject: |
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| GambateBingBangBOOM wrote: |
My first employer used to contact my home internet provider and get a daily list of all the websites that I had visited with my home computer (totally illegal in this country). They had the guy who sat right in front of me make the call. When he was refused he would say It's okay. he's my friend. (maybe that somehow makes it a loophole in this country, I dunno) They then puzzled over blacked out sites (internet banking) and would ask me about them at enkais. I once read an article about prostitution on-line from the Toronto Star. They had a meeting about it in a closed office.  |
That couldn't be more absurd. You should have contacted the newspaper about it. These kinds of things should be put in the public arena so prospective teachers know what they might be getting into. |
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