Job Discussion Forums

[Shan-Shan]

Though I doubt that the mainland will be following such trends soon, that renegade province of theirs has begun, in great earnest, to raise the requirements for teaching English at the university level. Now, this is not teaching Linguistics or SLA theory, but plain old language teaching:

[boubou]

Euh???? Who with the hel* wants to teach English as a foreign language in Taiwan and has a PHd????? Clearly the demande is lower, but still, I don't know many people who have obtained their PHd who would even think of teaching in a foreign country.... Any-one on this forum??

[Jordean]

[u24tc]

Yep, I can confirm Ming Chuan Uni in Taiwan require Phd's for all teaching positions.

[william wallace]

I've been posting and saying this about ESL/EFL for a few years now, and I try to discourage young folk from coming into ESL/EFL,or at least have a short timeline before heading home.The internet has made ESL/EFL teachers a dime/shilling a dozen.

You've got everyone and their cousin "doing" ESL in China (a *beep* global ESL phenomenon). Any ESL school that now speaks/writes of the 80s:" Travel the world and make big bucks" should offer a free 8-track player with a sticker "Keep On Truckin" on the players side.

Over the years I've been PM'd about 100-200 times from newbies.And while my gist is don't come into it(ESL); but,in some cases they know what they're doing, so I withhold my comments-But not always.

THE WRITING IN ON THE WALL

[william wallace]

I've been posting and saying this about ESL/EFL for a few years now, and I try to discourage young folk from coming into ESL/EFL,or at least have a short timeline before heading home.The internet has made ESL/EFL teachers a dime/shilling a dozen.

You've got everyone and their cousin "doing" ESL in China (a que.er global ESL phenomenon). Any ESL school that now speaks/writes of the 80s:" Travel the world and make big bucks" should offer a free 8-track player with a sticker "Keep On Truckin" on the players side.

Over the years I've been PM'd about 100-200 times from newbies.And while my gist is don't come into it(ESL); but,in some cases they know what they're doing, so I withhold my comments-But not always.

THE WRITING IS ON THE WALL

[Anda]

Jordean here in Asia Uni teaching has changed greatly with some University placing English instutites on campus where you work for instutite pay and conditions. This includes holidays. The thing common in China are 10 month contracts where you get no Summer holiday pay. There are good places to work but there is also a lot of bad joints.

The other thing is that you have to earn their respect. A lot of our lot have made a bad name for us. So don't come over here to Asia thinking everything is going to be easy.

[malu]

[Shan-Shan]

[william wallace]

Maybe it's like the Porsche idling in BJ traffic, and then crawling by at 5 KM an hour.What a waste of a Ph.D.I've got a Diploma in Hotel/Restaurant Management...never and would never teach it. I've got a Diploma in Investment Management...never and would never teach it.I've got two degrees and the subject don't come up...and I don't bring them up.I was trained many times by the BC(when it was small,and they could afford to train Examiners),but IELTS schools prefer...whatever...Wasted Ph.D. ! I guess it's different strokes for different engines,eh?

[SnoopBot]

As I have mentioned before the only thing worse than teaching Oral English with a 3 year legit MA Ed degree for an extra 300 RMB a month, is teaching with a PhD for that extra 500 RMB a month.

Are these PhD's from online universities like University of Phoenix or Life Experiences degrees?

Doing the Math for a good 5 year PhD = at least 50K.

I cannot see anyone teaching in China with a PhD unless they are under some exchange program (Being paid a Stipend) or retired with a good income and do not care.

Unless of course the PhD is a dodgy one.

I just don't see doing this with a heavy student loan to repay.

Sad, so no Taiwan university positions exist for those that have MAEd's in TESOL?

What PhD degree do they expect to work at the FLTD?

I can think of only 3.

PhD in Education and TESOL (teacher Trainer)
PhD in Linguistics
PhD in Education mangement and TESOL (course design)

Maybe I need to start looking at those online PhD programs again if they are accepting them.

Maybe we will all need a PhD in the future for the honor of getting 5000 RMB a month.

[william wallace]

Snoop : My working thesis is: ESL grew due to a demand from countries that had a lot of trade with English speaking countries(Japan post 1945 and the reconstruction). The late 1960s break from traditions included exotic travel, (you can see how UK travelers slowed down on Continental European travels to India etc) and a greater need for post-high school education (specifically Kennedy's 1963 push for better educated youth. Japan, Taiwan and Hong Kong were what China is now, and these were some of the lucrative early ESL markets. The Middle East getting American technical training,so that they could be more independent in dealing with their oil wealth.

In the early 1970s the phenomenon of budget ("find yourself" in Goa,for example) backpackers coincided with this new demand for English,as university attendance was going beyond the upper-classes. The Wheelers(Lonely Planet) were in that early backpacking crew(1970-3);their guidebooks allowed for greater adventure and lower risks.

By the 1980s the aforementioned countries manufacturing required more and more ESL FTs, and to attract Westerners they were offered very lucrative packages.As this was happening manufacturing and other support businesses were starting to leave developed countries,and this continues to the present day.

By the 1990s ESL was a large scattered global business with a few large chains(mostly in Japan).This was the period of time where advertisements for "Travel the world and make 2,000 dollars a month" were becoming frequent in magazines and newspapers,but by then, the hay-day was beginning to wane.Meanwhile, more and more Americans, Canadians, British...were getting degrees in a shrinking job market, though in areas of technicalness and specialization,it was growing.

By the time the internet was in place, there were vast amounts of young people with degrees, and the strong demand for ESL teachers was easily met by the internet, and with the surplus of applicants with degrees salaries began to stagnate or fall.

Today, we still have stagnant or falling salaries,but the amount of those coming into ESL is still growing. Manufacturing has all been but replaced in first world countries.

This is a very simplified version of my working thesis,but my conclusion is that the viability of ESL is coming to a close.

[malu]

Surely the great Wallace would recognise evolution in action? A population introduced into a favourable habitat expands to carrying capacity. On average, individuals obtain fewer resources than they did during the 'growth' phase.

Those individuals who learn to exploit specialised or novel niches tend to do better - on average - than those in the mainstream if the habitat suddenly becomes less favourable.

[Anda]

I work at a college and I have found that older Chinese teachers get up around 4,000 RMB. In South Korea older teachers in the public school system got up to 40% more than foreign English teachers did at the top level.

English will keep a place in education as it is the main international language but the big money days are finished.

If you want a job and you are good at teaching English then I think there is a good chance of keeping yourself in work with a reasonable lifestyle. I stayed in South Korea for the IMF crisis where exchange rates more than halved and two thirds of our lot ran home. Life didn't change much as far as living in country was concerned but!

English teaching still is offering a better lifestyle here then most jobs back home.

A private middle school in a city near me had 5 of our lot teaching last year and again this year but they found that the student�s ability to pass exams dropped. So this year the Chinese teachers will be lead teachers again. Oh, the school is a joint venture with US money. The school wants me to help sort things out a bit. Despite all the newbie�s there is still a place for the long term teachers along with better condition but just not as good as before that�s all.

[william wallace]

Dear Malu,
How deliciously Darwinian .