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jotham
Joined: 05 Jul 2007
Posts: 77
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 Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 6:07 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, they're definitely polarized, especially in politics, which I think is a good thing. I don't think collectivism has much to do with it. Koreans are much more collectivist, but I wouldn't say they have wooden personalities � they're very animated in many ways.
Last edited by jotham on Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:52 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Miyazaki
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 635
Location: My Father's Yacht
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| Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:40 am Post subject: |
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Taiwanese, on the other hand, seem like robots in a way; and I've rarely seen displays of Taiwanese anger as I've seen in Koreans. There's little in the way of drive, impetus, animation, dreams, or even emotions---good or bad.
And when there be emotions, they're crassly conveyed.
In the West, though our desires and emotions may differ person to person, they are definite and unmistaken. One woman may be overwhelmed at the beauty of a flower and ponder over it for a time: a strong, distinguishable, sincere emotion. Another woman may not care for such trifles, but rather is highly interested in analyzing things and gets curious about the details of her job and engrossed in it. Though different from the first, a palpable emotion nevertheless that helps us appreciate who she is, that defines her personality.
With many Taiwanese, I'm often scrambling to find evidence of a drive, strong enough to help me assess their disposition; I can't very easily figure out their personality. As you said, they're hard to get to know---though they be approachable and easily make friends or engage in conversation. I've often wondered if that explains their obsessive interest in star signs---to help them identify each other, or identify with something. And ironically, while they're looking to all sorts of animals for personality clues, I swear I could discover the character of any dog quicker. |
I agree with these comments. There's no reason to be extraordinary in Taiwan. So they don't have any real amibitions to go anywhere or do anything.
Is this passive approach to life a result of the oppression they experienced during the KMT rule in Taiwan?
Also, I've noticed that while the Koreans are definitely hot under the collar and xenophobic, they have personalities and they will make genuine friendships with foriegners. |
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just4u
Joined: 27 May 2007
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by just4u on Tue Aug 07, 2007 4:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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jotham
Joined: 05 Jul 2007
Posts: 77
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:27 am Post subject: |
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I think you have valid points. Sometimes, I wonder if females are more at home around Chinese speakers while males are more enamored of Korean life. I thought Korea was great, but a good female friend of mine in the Army was frustrated in Korea. She was always better at the language when we were at language school, and inspired me to study it harder. When she came to Korea, however, she discovered that all that dedication and hard work wasn't paying off, socially speaking. Years later, she moved to China and felt more comfortable and accepted among Chinese speakers. My case was different: I came to Taiwan to learn Chinese, expecting to have another Korean experience. When that didn't happen, I just assumed the glamour of overseas living was wearing off. But that's probably not why: I think it's just that Korea's glamourous, at least to me.
Last edited by jotham on Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:25 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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773
Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 213
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 3:05 am Post subject: |
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| MomCat wrote: |
| 773 wrote: |
| Taiwan has a collectivist culture, hence the lack of individualism. There is a sense of, "If I know something, all Taiwanese know it" and a strong group mentality. Kind of like The Borg from Star Trek. |
My experience has been just the opposite (although I agree it's true for Mainlanders). Taiwanese have very different backgrounds, cultural experiences, mores and opinions depending on several factors including their age, where their grandfather was born, when their family migrated to the island and even where on the island they live. |
But it's still a collectivist culture with a group mentality, regardless of the factors you mentioned. Individualism is discouraged and conformity is encouraged and viewed as the only acceptable "way." This is true of the Chinese culture, which dominates Taiwan. |
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jotham
Joined: 05 Jul 2007
Posts: 77
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:54 am Post subject: |
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Yes, you're right. The polarization of opinion is definitely making important inroads; but by and large, the shackles of autocratic-era thinking hasn't been completely shaken off, and probably won't be until the older generation passes away. The younger generation is still affected by the attitudes and behavior of the older generation, but that influence on the whole of society is on the wane, especially as the younger become the new grandparents. We Westerners are a product not only of present democratic realities but also of our grandparents' habits and mannerisms, which, unlike Taiwan, were fashioned by well-established, deeply-entrenched democratic thinking � even in their time.
Last edited by jotham on Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:51 am; edited 12 times in total |
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jotham
Joined: 05 Jul 2007
Posts: 77
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:26 am Post subject: |
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| Is this passive approach to life a result of the oppression they experienced during the KMT rule in Taiwan? |
Nah, I don't think so. Korea also had a fiery anticommunist, nevertheless autocratic, regime. Such governments may contribute to conformity in their societies, but I doubt that cardboard temperaments are a direct consequence. There's something deeper. |
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jotham
Joined: 05 Jul 2007
Posts: 77
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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I've rarely seen displays of Taiwanese anger as I've seen in Koreans. There's little in the way of drive, impetus, animation, dreams, or even emotions � good or bad.
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But what about the frequent vitriolic fights in Parliament? Doesn't that suggest fire and passion? It certainly appears they really care about their politics.
Even so, I struggle to convince myself that they possess the emotional wherewithal to pull off such spirited spectacles. Then, a recent news article unraveled the illogical paradox: these displays of apparent, political "passion" are just as fake as their night-market wares. It's all a show � complete BS.
Not that that's surprising; after all, to properly feel genuine outrage is to have a rock-solid sense of justice � both of which sentiments seem to overreach their emotional speedometers. So this is what we're reduced to: bogus outrage � legislators heartily joining the fray so they can be seen on TV jostling, clawing, wrestling in a bid to show voters just how "passionate" and "emotional" they most likely aren't.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=455587&in_page_id=1811
Whether staged tantrums, crocodile tears, or contrived chuckles, these machinations and put-ons � though not unknown to Westerners and encompassing maybe 5 to 40% of their expressions depending on individual sincerity � comprise up to perhaps 70% of emotional palettes in Taiwan; in order to BS you, to show social solidarity, to feel the moment, to act out the circumstances, to imitate genuine human behavior in a quest to appear normal, to be normal, like emotional wannabes. Indeed, even in their emotions, they are a copy-cat, plagiarist society � an inevitable development anytime creativity broadly lacks.
Is it even possible to create where there is little ability to emote? After all, emotions are the storehouse from which we judge something to be more clear, beautiful, pleasant, better, or what have you. They guide our creativity; they are our creativity. Creativity then is irredeemably tied to the emotions. And without emotions, creativity is beyond our purview. Could the curse of temperamental poverty and accompanying creative lack have anything to do with why Taiwan is often regarded as the fashion hell-hole of Asia � and why excellence is generally shunned? Without a developing of emotions, perceptions, and judgments, a nation's people necessarily rely on the creativity of more singular individuals and societies to apprize it of such values � in other words, copy them.
Last edited by jotham on Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:51 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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| tedkarma wrote: |
I found the people in Taiwan to be much friendlier - but maybe that is just me.
My savings there were about 2/3rds of what I saved in Korea. Not a huge difference considering that I felt that my quality of life was much better.
Seoul is okay - but I find it quite sterile. |
So how much can you save in Taiwan? |
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pest2
Joined: 28 Oct 2006
Posts: 170
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| Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Big John Stud wrote: |
[quote="Miyazaki"]I agree.
The money is 2 times better in Korea and, if you're in Seoul, the quality of life and choices are a lot better also.
Taiwan doesn't come close to Korea in terms of earning potential. And if you're in Seoul, Taipei doesn't really measure up at all. |
I completely disagree! My experience in Seoul, Korea was awful. Taipei was so much better of an experience. This is why I believe companies in Korea pay so much more than companies in Taiwan, because if they didn't no one would go to Korea.[/quote]
This is right on. Korea pays better but not without a sacrifice. The sacrifice is that you have to put up with Korea. |
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pest2
Joined: 28 Oct 2006
Posts: 170
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| Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| 773 wrote: |
| Taiwan has a collectivist culture, hence the lack of individualism. There is a sense of, "If I know something, all Taiwanese know it" and a strong group mentality. Kind of like The Borg from Star Trek. |
Ha, if you could just replace, "Taiwan" with "Korea" it would make perfect sense to me... I think maybe this is just something true about all asian cultures (except mainland China, which was definitely NOT like this). |
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