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brasscat
Joined: 22 Jan 2007
Posts: 245
Location: Farpoint Mindstation
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 Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:14 pm Post subject: Talk To A Native |
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Best way to find out fast about a place is to find a native of the country.
Then ask, in this case, A saudi Arab about life in the KSA.
Another way is contact the Saudi Cultural Mission in Washington, D.C.. They have all kinds of information about all aspects of KSA life.
If all fails, step back and let the train wreck. At this point it is very obvious something just isn't right.
brasscat |
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Bebsi
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 958
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Personally, I'd rather be taught by a well-trained non-native speaker than a poorly-trained native speaker any day. |
I must say, Bob, that I completely agree with you on this. There are indeed many out there who very wrongly assume that a native speaker by virtue of being such, can teach the language and do it well, even if they are not professional teachers. What we should be thinking of is native speaking teachers, as opposed to native speakers.
Regarding poor Susan, sorry if I was a bit harsh on you in my earlier posting Susan, but really, you should not disregard the advice of people who are experienced Saudi hands. You seem to be going into this with your eyes tightly closed and this can lead you to a very difficult time indeed.
If you have any specific questions, many people here would be happy to answer them, if they felt that it was worthwhile and that you might take their answers seriously. I will be happy to do so...but please keep them short.  |
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trapezius
Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 1670
Location: Land of Culture of Death & Destruction
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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She asked me some stuff, and I sent the following reply to her. There is nothing personal in my reply, and it may help others, therefore I am posting it here:
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You have to know that ALL (from street sweepers earning $100/month to top notch managers earning $50,000/month) the expats who have ever come to Saudi Arabia since expats started coming here in the 60's, can be grouped into 2 groups vis-a-vis their reason for coming here:
1) Huge majority: For financial reasons. Either because they can make more they can make back home, or they might make less here, but still save more because of no taxes and low cost of living, or because they can't find a job back home.
2) For religious reasons. Of course, these is some overlap between the two groups, but anyway, those are the only 2 reasons.
NO ONE comes here to experience
the culture
the weather
the local foods
the language
the social life
entertainment avenues
nice local people
etc, as most of those things are non existent in this country. You will NOT be immersed into the local culture here, or make any sort of worth mentioning friendships (if at all) with any Saudi women (men are out), learn the language, etc.
Locals and expats lead completely separate lives, and hardly cross each other's paths.
You will have to develop a love of reading, watching TV, watching movies on DVD, shopping (even if window shopping), going to Starbucks, etc, if you want to be able to have a sane life here. Those are pretty much the only things you can do here. Sure, you can sometimes do them with a friend or a group.
If those are things you can tolerate for the sake of the money, go for it. Try it out for a year or two.
BTW, what ethnicity/nationality are you? I ask to be able to figure out if there will be others like you here, to make friends, have a support group, etc. Of course, you can make friends with willing expats, but just curious if there are lots of others like you here. For example, if you are Japanese, there aren't many here. Same with Chinese and Korean. Reasonable number of White people from UK/US/Aus.
Anyway, let me know.
Good luck. |
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brasscat
Joined: 22 Jan 2007
Posts: 245
Location: Farpoint Mindstation
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:29 pm Post subject: A Bit Different |
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I must have traveled to the alternative universe KSA last outing.
I did see alot of stuff by travelling about the country, especially culture. Jubba and Jedda are two of many places. I did visit with several Saudi families and stayed in their homes. I found the hospitality fabulous.
I camped out at an oasis over one weekend with several other teachers and Saudis. Total fun.
Yes, there are those who do indeed adopt a bunker mentality and stay in their apartment most of the time. A choice, not a mandate.
I had a regular activity list to to do things. Everything from a meteor crater, camel rides, ATV riding across the sand dunes, visiting local area farms, sand sleding, going to two car rallies, helping the Supreme Minister of Tourism write tourist brochures, cave explorations(3), prehistoric drawing sites(4), and even an audience with a Prince at Adja Palace (marvelous Arab coffee there.). I was interviewed on Saudi National TV 2 times along with some race car drivers.
Shopping. Had a ball haggling for everything from rugs, suits, and even a new computer.
Boredom is a choice, not something imposed. The Misharistas are planning at least two major outtings in the fall. Petra is on our holiday visit list.
brasscat |
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Susan WW
Joined: 24 Jul 2007
Posts: 60
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 2:27 am Post subject: Re: Camel Ride |
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| brasscat wrote: |
It is the first camel ride that seperates the dudes from the old hands.
One learns fast why you always hold onto the back of the saddle.
I had my first experience in being camel-pulted and found out the sand wasn't that soft.
brasscat |
Did u go there as a camel jockey?? |
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brasscat
Joined: 22 Jan 2007
Posts: 245
Location: Farpoint Mindstation
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 2:38 am Post subject: As A Writer |
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In addition to teaching, I am also a published professional writer.
Experience and exploration are the building blocks of any new manuscript.
Sure enough, book #4 is well underway. Title: Viva Misharista!
I will be gathering background and character information for the beginnings of book #5. Tentitive title: Misharistas Never Die.
So, if it takes riding a camel to create a plot line, then bring it on.
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Susan WW
Joined: 24 Jul 2007
Posts: 60
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 3:03 am Post subject: |
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I asked advice , and you shared your experiences in KSA. I was with you all the time, but when you started to judge or make comments at me, I dont recall asking for it.
I find that some posters who have been here for a while on this forum, are pretending they know everything , but infact, they know nothing.
Anyway, mission accomplished!
I didn`t have to try that hard.. I prefer people dislike me or find me unpleasant to work with.. My motto "Shut up OR Put up"
I received (6)job offers in Mid east (UAE,Oman) a year ago (still 2 standing), as you all know I need(ed) to provide 2 year EFL teaching references, and my (former)boss in Japan refused to release me.. and did he like me as one of his teachers?? Believe me , yelling at each other is not uncommon between us.. I continued working for another six months in Public shools, (in Japanese school system,visit different schools each day..teach different levels different classes , must discuss /prepare lessons with different class teachers (topics are highly censored), small talk with principlas.vice prncipals, disagreeing with them, attend seminars, attend welcome party, fairwell parties, school celebrating with fanfare to welcome me. my picture in local newspapers (not for shoplifting heehee)/school newsletters, when I completed my contract(s), I couldn`t even carry all the presents, flowers ,japanese lacquareware, even my house owner elderly couple (who sent food for me almost daily), gave me pocket money..
currently, my students include kids (from 4 to High school), one microsurgeon,one neurologist, one dental hygienist. The most rewarding experienc is that teaching one (female)Rotary club member, who is proposing/working on Projects in helping B`deshi children incl. strret children/ child prostitution/beggers,, education and health support, providing tubewells ( B`desh water is undrinkable according to our standard), and promoting women literacy rate.. most gals dont go to school., And these projects will be hopefully combined with Dr Mohammed Yunus` Micro credit system and Bramin Bank..Cool, ,huh?.I`m hoping I could help them raise more fund..too.
What I`m saying is I m not perfect like any of you, but I aslo need to work .. if you could understand that.. then you will stop posting anything mean about me or anypost in relation to me/my topics..
Trap.. thanks for your message,I find it helpful.
I received a visa slip form Uni yesterday, and the admin staff phoned me.
I have many mid east male friends( just good friends ), and I will share with you my interview findings if you care to know.. All I need now is to collect my visa at Tokyo Saudi Embassy, and off to Damman airport .. I will work here till end of August, dancing in Awaodori in Toushima city Obon Festival..I have 9 days summer break in Mid August ,, so fun fun fun, and Ill be in Bangkok stopover for shopping, any suggestion??,,
Saudi Arabia , here I come... Insha`allah see you all
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 3:23 am Post subject: |
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WW I feel it is time that you revealed to us where you are from ! Taskhent ? Chechnya ? Ingushetia ?
Last edited by scot47 on Wed Aug 08, 2007 3:47 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Susan WW
Joined: 24 Jul 2007
Posts: 60
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 3:44 am Post subject: Re: A Bit Different |
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| brasscat wrote: |
I must have traveled to the alternative universe KSA last outing.
I did see alot of stuff by travelling about the country, especially culture. Jubba and Jedda are two of many places. I did visit with several Saudi families and stayed in their homes. I found the hospitality fabulous.
I camped out at an oasis over one weekend with several other teachers and Saudis. Total fun.
Yes, there are those who do indeed adopt a bunker mentality and stay in their apartment most of the time. A choice, not a mandate.
I had a regular activity list to to do things. Everything from a meteor crater, camel rides, ATV riding across the sand dunes, visiting local area farms, sand sleding, going to two car rallies, helping the Supreme Minister of Tourism write tourist brochures, cave explorations(3), prehistoric drawing sites(4), and even an audience with a Prince at Adja Palace (marvelous Arab coffee there.). I was interviewed on Saudi National TV 2 times along with some race car drivers.
Shopping. Had a ball haggling for everything from rugs, suits, and even a new computer.
Boredom is a choice, not something imposed. The Misharistas are planning at least two major outtings in the fall. Petra is on our holiday visit list.
brasscat |
Can I join these tours or visit those places alone? |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 3:47 am Post subject: |
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| You most certainly cannot ! |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 9:51 am Post subject: |
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| The Nine Parts of Desire (no author's name again) regarding views of sexuality in that part of the world. |
This piece of pulp is written by an Aussie hack who has only the most superficial knowledge of the Middle East, and Saudi Arabia in particular (well, what do you expect from someone who wrote for the WSJ, right-wing and fanatically Zionist even by US standards). The author speaks no Arabic, bases her knowledge of KSA on the women's toilets in KK Airport, and gets a kick out of 'shocking' the locals by revealing that she converted to Judaism to appease her husband's intolerant family (the latter detail is, of course, left out). In short, while the book might be suitable for Marie Claire readers to discuss with their similarly enlightened friends at Starbucks, it is worse than useless for anyone who wants a real understanding of the Middle East and its women. It is basically Jean Sasson with journalistic pretentions. |
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zaylahis
Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 59
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 10:15 am Post subject: gift for new collegues |
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| A new book written by a Saudi girl is "Girls of Riyadh". Another book written by a Saudi author is Boy from Mekkah. Nothing intellectual but nice reading. Then there are the Cities of Salt trilogy by Abdelrahman Munif. If you want an insight into the tycoons of KSA, there is Walter Simpson's The Prince and another book (can't remember the author) on Prince Al-Waleed. I am sure you can get copies from Amazon. |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 10:19 am Post subject: |
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| The first book you mention has not, I believe, been translated into English. Munif's books are banned in KSA, which means they may well be worth reading. The same cannot be said for Riz Khan's hagiography of Prince Waleed, which is openly sold on supermarket shelves in Riyadh. Which, of course, can only mean that it is not at all worth reading. |
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zaylahis
Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 59
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 10:26 am Post subject: Gifts for collegues |
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| Cleopatra, I just finished reading the book Girls of Riyadh in English. Maybe it is also banned in KSA? There was an interview with the author and she spoke of threats to her. The books are sold in Singapore and Malaysia but maybe you can check on Amazon? I did hear about the trilogy being banned in KSA though. |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| There was an interview with the author and she spoke of threats to her. |
Well, since the days of the Salman Rushdie fatwa and probably long before, one way for an author to get easy publicity - especially if their work in any way deals with Islam - is to claim 'threats' against them. I'm not saying that the author is inventing these 'threats', whatever they may or not be, just that it's neither here nor there regarding whether her (allegedly rather tame) book is worth reading or not. For someone who deals with the 'girls of Riyadh' every day, personally I'll pass on her book, but I'd imagine that for those not familiar with KSA, it might prove an interesting antidote to the likes of Sasson and Brookes.
BTW as far as I know the book was intially banned in KSA, but is now available. Interesting that it has been translated into English.
Regarding books on KSA, I have found that those by "Western" authors are often superficial and poorly informed. One possible exception is Robert Lacey's out of print "THe Kingdom" though it only goes up to the '80s and is considered rather too soft on its subject (still banned here, however). I recommend SAid Aburish's book on the Sauds, though it's also out of date and some say a little too gossippy and poorly sourced. Also good is Assad AbuKhalil's "Battle for Saudi Arabia". Needless to say, both are banned in KSA. |
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