Job Discussion Forums

[vikuk]

[vikuk]

[clark.w.griswald]

[vikuk]

Well if Clark's description of being farmed-out turns out to backed up by other posters -

[arioch36]

Clark said elsewhere

[arioch36]

I would stay away from being farmed out for several reasons

But let's clarify. When I say "being farmed out" it refers to a school or recruiter hiring you to work at one school, and then making extra money by instead having you work at other schools.

This is not the same as working at a school that has many branches that wants to to go to many of these branches. If you like being treated to meals and drinking lots of Baijiu, and travelling, this has it's rewards

Right now being farmed out has a definite risk, higher then any time I have been here in 6 or 7 years. Several places have been busted. It means a loss of face and a fine for the school. It means huge troubles for the laowai. In Henan, at least, it happens every year. And there is always someone ready to squeal on you. Disgruntled students, school, other laowai or other jealous teachers. Or just the PSB ready to make a bust, or the Provincial office looking for a piece of the pie, and using you as the counter chip

Being paid! How many times over the years I did post here have I heard
this one. Overtime not being paid, classes on sudden notice, no one interested less in the quality of these classes, etc. No control over your teaching. I could go on forever. You are agreeing to be just a piece of meat and will be treated as such

[SnoopBot]

The Farm outs you need to worry about are the back office jobs where a group of Chinese get together and suplly a FT to the schools for a fee.

Then they pay the FT a typical 5000 rmb 20 hour per week teaching salary. Regardless if you are travelling 10 hours a week of paid wages or not.

You drift to different areas where they can provide a teacher like a temp agency. As many have mentioned some are dodgy outfits.

Legit farm outs are parent universities or joint programs that require travel. Usually a universwity car and driver are provided with some Chinese teacher helper at the new location. These often result in a higher wage, benefit or overtime salary.

The other farm outs are private jobs that you get paid directly (The 200 RMB an hour ones) These come as extra work and can be rejected or taken by the FT.

The farm outs that need to be looked at very carefully are the types I first mentioned, maybe no real classroom or some dodgy position that was created by others to earn money. Often these positions can start well and easy and end up being hell.

Therefore, many questions must be asked before accepting a Farm out only job position.

If it is a legit job with a classroom and some travel because the hours are low at the hiring institution, then this is typical. Some places the FT's will teach 9 hour weeks during slow season. The other 11 hours possibly can be farm outs. I still wouldn't accept this kind of position though.

The farm outs I would and do accept are the ones that are parent university operated and provide the transportation and materials for the transitions, or the ones you get paid cash in hand.

Again, I would not accept farm outs that are money-making scams for Chinese staffers.

[james s]

Farming is when the school send you out to different locations to teach and this is illegal. When the school invites anotether organizaton to conduct classes on their campus it is okay and not farming because it is happening on their land.

[vikuk]

The most common form of farming out is when so-called training companies (the mills) who have the right to hire FT's - hire these teachers out to schoolls (usually kindy to middle school) that don't. From these forums we've even read of cases of the major mills (certain branches of EF for example) carrying out this dubious practice!!!!!!!
In these circumstances - being put up in plush hotels, and being wined and dined by clients - is often replaced by the grind of travel and the usual Chinese flare for bad-organisation.

[HunanForeignGuy]

[vikuk]

[upchuckles]

Vikuckee: Most people of intelligence will recognize that although you make a point of issues relating to "farming out" you attempt to invalidate others ideas and opinions.. There is no "right", "true" and correct answer to the folks who would accept these types of positions, its an opinion and no, it is not illegal if your school is providing the venue and the venue happens to be at another school location.

As for me, I could care less about your nonsense cause I do my thing, I enjoy it and I've illustrated why I like to do what I do.. I didn't harsh on others opinions, but I am pointing out it is not an illegal practice. I doubt you would find one case where a school (that is properly certified and registered to host foreign teachers) was brought to court for engaging in this practice.. Anywhere in China..

I never disagreed that inherent risks exist with regards to exploitation of "farming out", HOWEVER - these risks like any other should be thwarted at the due diligence level and prior to signing a contract. I won't put up with exploitation, but Its my choice to allow my school to send me to other locations, so long as they pay a market wage and I am happy doing it.. Alot of people do this, and make good money at it.. and alot of folks do this.. and don't make good money.. Who's fault is that? When they said they'd pay me 100 Per hour, my company told them to pound sand, (Yeah, I got a great recruiter that doesnt make a cut and actually sticks up for its teachers, another topic you like to bash so absent mindedly)

Ack! Gotta go - the wife is here now.. Its baby makin time!

[vikuk]

Upchuckles - since HFG failed to answer my query you could have go at this question -
Look at these two descriptions of farming out -

1. The most common form of farming out is when so-called training companies (the mills) who have the right to hire FT's - hire these teachers out to schools (usually kindy to middle school) that don't. From these forums we've even read of cases of the major mills (certain branches of EF for example) carrying out this dubious practice!!!!!!!
In these circumstances - being put up in plush hotels, and being wined and dined by clients - is often replaced by the grind of travel and the usual Chinese flare for bad-organisation.

2. Travelling to different locations and sometimes different cities, being put up in hotels, wined and dined, and meeting people you would not otherwise meet are all bonuses on top of the teaching

Which would you say most commonly sums up this practice
You know upchucles, regardless of our personal diffrences, it�s important we don't lead those newbies astray otherwise the more unscrupulous employer could maybe persuade them to do very much anything!!!!!

[upchuckles]

Vikukee: Not everything is a horror story.. Most people enjoy their experience and never write about their positive experiences.. Folks are more apt to write about the negative..

Its summer.. Take your wife on vacation and get away from the computer for awhile..

[vikuk]

Once again silence regarding an answer (just more personal off-topic stuff) - well they do say silences can speak a thousand words