Job Discussion Forums

[koshechka]

hello to all,
so, now i have decided to consider san francisco in my search for the perfect place to move to. what are your thoughts about the quality of life in san francisco vs. vancouver? how is the weather, i've read that it rains a lot in vancouver making it somewhat depressing, san francisco doesn't seem to have this problem. what about the homeless population, both cities seem to be affected, which is in your mind more problematic. public transportation? esl job availability? pollution? anything else i have forgotten but is important.
thank you very much for those with an opinion.
cheers,
koshechka

[Henry_Cowell]

What type of job are you seeking in San Francisco? At what level?

[Sgt Killjoy]

My thought would be the cost of living there. Why not try Seattle, Eugene, or Portland? Oops. ESL teaching.

[koshechka]

i am thinking of esl, but i am only interested in part time. my husband is an architect and is deciding where to study his masters. by feb. i should have a master's in tesol too. but i am more interested in your thoughts about the two cities. their problems, good points, etc.
thanks,
koshechka

[denise]

San Francisco is an amazing city. I absolutely love it. Not the weather, though... Sure, when it's a clear day and the sun is out, it's spectacular. It does tend to be cool and windy, though. There are some crazy microclimates there--on a summer day, San Francisco might be in the 60s/70ish, Berkeley or Oakland in the 70s, and then just east of the hills it could be 100!

There is sort of a public transportation system--it's certainly more developed than in other California cities. The BART system goes from the city to the east bay and down the peninsula, and within the city there are Muni buses and trams. They're OK--not super-reliable, but decent. And San Francisco is a fairly small and compact city, so a lot of it is walkable.

Hopefully you realize that your financial survival will depend a lot on your husband's prospects! Yes, there are language schools and colleges (and even more if you're willing to live in and/or commute to the east or south bay), but... well, I imagine you know how difficult it is to get a well-paid ESL job and how expensive San Francisco is. I, too, was thinking of moving back there (well, Berkeley, actually, which is where I lived), but it's really just not a very liveable place on an ESL teacher's salary. At least, not if you want to be able to partake of everything that's on offer down there. I'm not content to just stay home and eat Top Ramen--I like to go out and enjoy my life!

d

[naturegirl321]

I lived in Southern Cal and my family's up in San Jose. Frisco is going to be super expensive. What about a smaller town?

[Vanica]

I was interviewed for a position at a private school in Palo Alto, then told with a child I wouldn't be able to afford to live there on the salary offered. Yes, this was anecdotal, but something to think about.

[koshechka]

yes, i heard that it is very expensive, but then again, i have read that most of the produce is imported to canada which then makes it very expensive too. go figure. how about the homeless in both cities? and is there a problem with pollution in either? i think that getting an esl job will be equally challenging in both, what can you do.
thanks for your comments,
koshechka

[chan_konabe]

[koshechka]

thanks once more for such an interesting input especially the bit about housing shortages. i think that first we would be renting for some years before making a decision to buy. in a previous response, you (chan_konabe) have written that you are used to the homeless population in vancouver, would you say that they tend to stay in a segregated area where i wouldn't necessarily need to go? this is probably true of most cities. what is considered normal salary in the esl field? do you think there is any work speaking spanish, like interpreting or something like that or are spanish speaking immigrants a tiny minority? from what i've read about the demographics, it seems 40% of vancouver is asian. not that i care but not much use speaking to them in spanish, is there. also, does anyone by any chance know of how easy it is to come in on a student visa and have it changed to permanent resident once in canada? i think that the plan for now is to go to ubc where my husband would get a master's and then try to stay, is this feasible/legal?
thanks,
koshechka

[chan_konabe]

In what is one of the greatest (yet saddest) ironies of Canadian life, Vancouver, consistently ranked among the best cities in the world to live, is also home to one of the poorest neighbourhoods in Canada, the Downtown Eastside (DTES). The majority of the drugs, thefts, vanadalism and prostitution is centred in the area, though no part of Vancouver is immune of course. You'll also see large numbers of homeless panhandling in the downtown core during business hours and tourist season too.

As for the normal salary in the ESL field, that depends a lot on your power of negotiation. To see some current vacancies use Service Canada's Job Bank, a government-sponsored database of jobs openings. Expect a wide range of salaries for someone starting at a school - $18 to $35 per hour depending on training and experience. Unfortunately, I've heard that English language teaching salaries in Vancouver have slowly been decreasing over the years.

Over the last 10 years, there has been a significant increase in the numbers of Spanish-speakers in Vancouver, mostly from Mexico and Central America. I'm not aware of any jobs associated with interpreting or translation. However, there is a shortage of secondary school Spanish teachers in some parts of Vancouver. However, this isn't the kind of job you can just walk into. You'd need a secondary school teaching certificate and related education coursework. If you'd like more info, I can point you in the right direction.

I can't give you any advice on changing from a student visa to permanent residence beyond telling you that everything with Citizenship and Immigration Canada (CIC) takes time. They're usually fast with family class sponsorships because family reunification is a stated CIC priority, but skilled worker visas and PR applications seem to take a lot of time.

[koshechka]

thanks so much chan_konabe, your responses are most helpful. for now, i do not have many more questions, but will surely in the months to come. speak to you later,
p.s. if you or any one else have any questions about life in chile or mexico, feel free to ask.

cheers,
liza

[SF21]

I live in the Peninsula, here in the Bay Area, and pay $1100 for a good size one-bedroom apartment. I think too many people get caught up thinking they need to live in the city of San Francisco itself. If you own a car or know the public transit system, there's really no need to live in the city if you work there...and it's a bit overrated, IMO. There are tons over sterile, overpriced lofts and high-rise apartment buildings going up on a monthly basis. I've lived here for 10 years and it's definitely losing its flavor.

You can afford to rent/live in the overall Bay Area if you're willing to be flexible and commute.

[choctawmicmac]

I've actually felt that way about Seattle vs San Francisco. San Francisco is livelier and more ALIVE than anything around Puget Sound, Vancouver included. People up there are interminably depressed, suicidal, snotty, and mean. And if you can't stand them and start thinking about committing suicide yourself, they treat you like it's your own fault! Not so much in San Francisco.

My feelings about the differences in climate of living in the two places are covered in detail on some other forums (Native American ones, specifically) but I will say that the teaching market is easier to get into in San Francisco. On a teachers' salary, though, you will have to really know how to ECONOMISE. How to live cheap. It can be done. You just won't be living on Nob Hill or having the life you see on the TV shows that take place in San Francisco, though, not on a teachers' salary. Or any salary of someone who just got there and is just starting out.

The thing about getting a job in San Francisco, though, is that overall they don't seem to care where you have taught before, where you came from, or any of that nonsense and rubbish that you get hit with whenever you show up any other place in the world and start applying for jobs.

Housing is tight. And that's the understatement of the year. Low-income housing has a waiting period of up to 8 years. Vancouver's is still slightly easier to get into. Of course, the job market in any Canadian city is always slower than in its counterpart in the U.S. It's harder to get a job in Toronto than in New York, Calgary is harder than Denver....etc.

If you still want ammunition with with to make the decision, consider this. In spite of its being on the West Coast and "not really Canada" as people in Eastern Canada are always telling me to my face, Vancouver is still Canada and as such, it will be harder to get any job if your experience and references aren't local to them. In Canada. And recent. If you've worked anywhere else in the world, (or less recently) you will find it infinitely easier to get a job in San Francisco because of the above-mentioned. They care less if you've been abroad or if you're from somewhere else than anyplace in Canada does.

[Henry_Cowell]

Don't forget that the "San Francisco Bay Area" comprises nine counties. There are so many schools, including adult schools, community colleges, private language schools, and so on.

Heck. There are about 7.5 million people in the nine-county area.

And there are plenty of reasonable places to live outside the expensive central places like San Francisco County and Marin County.