Job Discussion Forums

[sheeba]

I'd be interested if those that participate in a pre-term needs analysis could share any ideas as to hoe they go about the reserach.

I find extracting info from students as to their preferences not so difficult but I've found it difficult to assess gaps in areas such as grammar and pronunciation. I want to design a test that covers these areas. It's a difficult job I know as I am dealing with a multi-level class. Last term I got a few results from such a test(finding out problems with conditionals) but I felt it was lacking in overall depth in order to diagnose problem areas and consequently design my curriculum.

Any one designed such a test? How about pronunciation ?

Cheers

[Brian Caulfield]

One thing that may work is a voice pad . I saw these in South Korea . The student speaks into a microphone that is conected to a program that writes out what it hears . You could simply mark them on the number of correct sentences pronounced . I would tape conversations and mark the errors later . It is too hard to listen and mark at the same time . It also distracts them when you write when they are talking .

[sheeba]

I taped last semester Brian.

I got the general problem areas but only in certain tense situations. Our
English grammar poses so many blooming problems that I find it hard to create a test that will expose a large amount of these underlying problems. I'm after decent tests that have been evaluated. Anyone know where I could find such a test for Chinese students?

cheers

[Brian Caulfield]

The new TOEFL is very interesting it is computerized . It changes the level of questions according to how the student does on previous answers. So it is possible to score higher with less correct answers than another student . I found the Longman TOEFL preparation is the best for preparing students . It is very systematic in grammar preparation . Maybe you could get some ideas from looking at this book .
My theory of testing is to keep things simple . Don't get bogged down with too much analysis . Problem areas I find here are with the Vs and Fs sounds . They tend to end their words with vowels and they don't understand the past tense ed ending words . For instance the pronounced walked and talked as walk ed and talked instead of walkt and talkt .

[sheeba]

Yes Brian. The pronunciation bits I agree with and I have other points investigated and still under investigation especially in relation to discourse(specifically pronunciation integrated with grammar) which I feel is the area I will move forward with this. I've gained a lot from Michael MCcarthy and his insights in discourse and Roach of course makes it all understandable and pieces together phonetics in sufficient a detail to at least create an awareness and promote my own noticing techniques in class.

I've been reading today 'The elements of Language Curriculum: A Systematic Approach to Program Development' by a James Dean Brown.
James seems to label the main parts and has put me on track in regards of order of analysis - Needs Analysis-Goals- Objectives-Testing- Materials and then Teaching. He ran a program in Guangzhou but this was for specialist (ESP I think) students. I think this changed for him and he ended up with undergraduates that were not within ESP. Anyway he does kind of give me some structure and I know next week will involve step 1 -Needs Analysis which I feel is important to start with.

I will look at TOEFL and keep things simple as you rightly point out. I'm thinking of working on a situational curriculum this term and will try and combine situations needed to be taught along with structure and (in some way) phonetics and phonology.

I just hope my initial enthusiasm keeps.

Cheers.

[Brian Caulfield]

Something from the old school or audiolingual aproach is no longer done in China . That is having the students spend time in a language laboratory and listening to their own voices and then comparing their pronunciation to that of the taped native speaker. I want my students to do this but there are not enough tape recorders to do it . I spend more time trying to improve the students listening here . I think because English is so widely used in the world we are used to pronunciation mistakes and still get the gist of what they are saying , however when they constantly answer inappropiately to my questions I realize they can't listen .

[william wallace]

There might still be kicking around in the Midi-Kingdom an old Korean series called "You Too Can Speak English";it follows the WWII audio-lingual method, which I think is brilliant for these rote learners,and it also has a companion pronunciation book.

[sheeba]

I'm a fan of audiolingual methods . I know from my own acquisition that in my initial stages of learning Chinese drilling was a superb introduction to the language and really helped me apply structures, fine tune pronunciation and notice subtle parts of language(due to the preciseness of forms drilling offers)

However in my circumstances I don't really find audiolingual methods in class have much use. Perhaps if I had more time with the students it could help more but for 2 meetings a week I find it not enough time to drill students to the point where there is intake.

Jack Richards said-

'The methodology of the Army method derived from the intensity of contact with the target language'

And

'There were generally fifteen hours of drill with native speakers and twenty to thirty hours of private study spread over two to three six-week sessions. Students in such courses studied TEN hours a day, six days a week'

Did the old school here in China use language labs in this way Brian? That would sound a more sensible approach especially if one was using audiolingual approaches in class.

I think I will drill a bit this term but only really to demonstrate how students can start to do this ON THEIR OWN. IMHO They really do need to sit down and study by themselves at the initial stages of their acquisition. There is just not enough time to do this in class. The level of the student really makes a difference in all this.

I've been reading some interesting opinions on 'noticing' in ESL teaching and I think it makes a lot of sense. I will try and work on students working together this term and inductively begin to notice for themselves language. I think Krashen influenced us all a little too much in some ways and communicative language teaching definitely is limited here in zhongguo.

I might attempt(again!) Gattegno's Silent way as a method for classroom teaching along with the 'Natural Approach' which involves a lot of listening early on in the program as opposed to production. I think this ties in with Chinese students' reactions. They are very shy to begin with in a course but towards the end start to open out. I guess the needs analysis also needs to take into account student styles of learning in some way.

Anyway we've kind of moved onto methods now which is cool as I've just noted that styles are closely related and should be included in needs analysis and perhaps methods should come between Needs analysis and Goals and I'll get rid of teaching at the end.

SO -The Dave's ESL China forum theory-
Needs analysis-methods-goals-objectives-testing.

Whilst we're talking methodology does anyone have any idea how to effectively execute the silent method in class here?I've tried but with limited effectiveness.

And I have been pondering working on students individual needs again. I know this is hard especially if I have big classes this term. Any ideas how to work on individual problems and progress with these?

Cheers!

Oh and thanks for the reference William. I'll look that up.