Job Discussion Forums

[lostinasia]

[Joe C.]

[lostinasia]

Yes. There are a few other new contract related laws.

The purpose of discussion is that it is nice to know at the time of contract signing and, if your contact has good English, is a way to show you know the law, ask that it's written in the contract, and so forth.

Granted, the average person who comes here is 23 years old, is too afraid to ask questions, challenge the hiring authority (before or after the job), and has no concept of what the contract even says ...

Either way ... information presented

[latefordinner]

As you say, LinA, information presented.
I'm wondering why such a law is being enacted, and of course to what extent anone actually expects such a law (ahem, mildly impolite suggestion) to be enforced. Speculation, anyone?

[englishgibson]

i dare to speculate that many FTs have complained about the practices of chemployers....i dare to speculate that this is a kinda thing for all people around the world to see how well chinese treat their foreign workers...i dare to speculate that this is to attract more of the foreing teachers to this lovely country where there are so many "traveling teachers" (with all due respect to us)

peace to all laws in china that are in effect effectively
and
cheers and beers to all FTs that feel protected by those laws

[Ping Jing]

In regards to how Chinese management treats their employees, weren't a few Chinese folk kidnapped in Nigeria a few months ago because of working conditions?

[englishgibson]

Ping, could we stay in China for this one

Cheers and beers to all workers around the world but above all to the ones that've come to China to make it a better country

[clark.w.griswald]

It seems to me that this law is really intended for local workers rather than foreign workers. Of course there would no direct distinction in this regard but in consideration of the following I am not sure how a foreign worker could really ask for the above to enforced.

To be working legally a foreigner needs to have a signed employment contract from day one (perhaps even before day one) as otherwise you would be working illegally. You can't get your work documents without a signed contract, and if you are working without documentation then you would be working illegally. I doubt that an illegal foreign worker could ask for the above law to be applied to them.

If you look at a local worker however they do not have to have a contract of employment but of course having one would provide them with some protection. Therefore the changes to the law help to provide some level of protection for them.

That's my take for what it's worth!

[Brian Caulfield]

Ya the law means nothing . The school gets the right to have a foreign teacher because they have friends at Immigration. So you are going to go to complain to them ? Contracts mean nothing also . The only way to know if you are not going to lose is to go and talk to previous teachers and check the conditions out . My last job in Nanyang was a disaster because I just talked on the phone with a teacher . If I had gone and met the teachers I would of got the truth. The only way for a contract to have weight is for it to be in Chinese and chopped in Chinese .

[lostinasia]

No contract anywhere has any merit ...

Unless you actually go to court

And it is your responsibility to be sure you have a contract that will help protect you as much as possible should you actually go to court

A contract is the same as buying car insurance - it's useless and you get nothing from it unless you actually have an accident

[Brian Caulfield]

What court are you talking about . The Chinese court where the judges are friends with the school officials . Your joking . This is China you are supposed to be volunteering and helping China develope . The only way to prevent being ripped off is in having a good relationship with whoever you do business with . This requires time and it requires you knowing some Chinese .

[OGFT]

sorry Mr. C, but have you ever been in a Chinese court and do you speak with first hand knowledge.

[lostinasia]

I've been to court. My first job in China fired me because I didn't go to the Christmas party. One of the teachers started telling his class a number of things about me because I didn't go and about how bad American culture and so forth was.

I was fired, went to the mediation board, and lost - they claimed that the party fit into my number of hours per week - even though it was not actual teaching. Despite, my contract saying teaching hours, I lost. My contract did not have any clause requiring me to participate in "other" types of social activities, and the like.

I then acquired an attorney, went to court, was asked 2 questions "on the stand," had my documents, and such ... I won the case in less than 20 minutes in court - with a judge, the works.

I won lost pay, the end of contract bonus, my airfare, the $2000 breach of contract penalty clause of the contract, legal fees for my lawyer, as well as the school receiving a fine from the government for contract violation. And yes, I did receive the money due.

This was in Jiangsu province.

And no, I did not speak a word of Chinese - my lawyer hired a certified translator - cost also paid for in the judgment.

That's not to say it was easy - it took nearly a year to get done. But in the end, I showed them who was boss I had hoped the school would lose it's license for foreigners but that was not the jurisdiction of the court from what my attorney told me.

So, this is one reason I pay close attention to the laws as they pop up (and are ignored as well).

[Joe C.]

[lostinasia]

All Hail the Foreigners

"It's good to be the King"