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vikuk
Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1842
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 Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:34 am Post subject: |
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| Once you've taught for a while, is the quality of certification that big of a deal when it comes to getting jobs? |
In China the only big deal for a native English speaker is how white they look - in which city they try and find a job (supply and demand) - and when they apply (application timed to coincide with general recruitment needs). But any one with a "go get it" attitude can get around all these factors!!!!
As for the recognition of certification - well it doesn't mean hardly anything in China - and in South America, I suspect, the type of TEFL you talked about in your opening post, would be regarded as a joke!!!! |
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taoalchemist
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:41 am Post subject: |
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[quote="vikuk"]
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| why not ask them if they're in China working as an FT, and on what kind of China experience does their wisdom ride on. |
Good point...I never did stop to ask the experience level of anybody responding 
I'm Puerto Rican and African in heritage, but somehow came out looking somewhat Caucasion. I reiterate, I have a college degree (I.Tech) and am relatively well-read and well-spoken. From what I've heard so far, the biggest challenge I'll face arriving in China in January is finding someplace that wants to employ me for only the second semester, right?
I imagine I'd employ the help of the school in obtaining that Z visa? |
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Katja84
Joined: 06 May 2007
Posts: 165
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:06 am Post subject: |
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| vikuk wrote: |
| The posts on this thread seem to hold a pattern of - the more experienced the FT the more comical they find this project (price/wage/recognition of TEFL/standard of TEFL/visa arrangements .....and of course lets not forget the welcome dinner). While the posters who seem to try and find a positive spin on it ...... well why not ask them if they're in China working as an FT, and on what kind of China experience does their wisdom ride on. |
Well, we all know how afraid you are of losing your job to somebody like the above poster so experience of China may not be the only thing that goes into our answers.
I had assumed the person did not have a degree (the organization is open to people without a degree) so can I ask those of you "more experienced" FTs (I've only been in China for a year so I guess my comments are by definition invalid) what you would have considered his alternatives to be in such circumstances? Can a non-degree holder come to China to teach for six months and do a TEFL certificate beforehand by organizing things themselves? |
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Anda
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 2199
Location: Jiangsu Province
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:25 am Post subject: Um |
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Yes if one wants to work in the public school system but without a degree you are looking at 3,000 RMB a month on about a 16 hour working week. They will organise a TEFL course etc at your cost but it is low.
The more paperwork the bigger the pay up till about 4,500. With overtime however that is available at some schools you can get about 8,000 RMB a month for a 24 hour working week along with accommodation, holidays and airfare.
An English teaching certificate is worth a bit of effort but more than a certificate is a waste of time and money as you are better getting a degree is another field as EFL has had it's good / hay days. |
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7969
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:53 am Post subject: |
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| vikuk wrote: |
I'd pay $3,200 just for the welcome dinner  |
wow just found this one. have u eaten yet? i've got sumthing on the stove right now. come on over with chequebook....  |
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taoalchemist
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 11:16 am Post subject: Re: Um |
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| Anda wrote: |
| Yes if one wants to work in the public school system but without a degree you are looking at 3,000 RMB a month on about a 16 hour working week. They will organise a TEFL course etc at your cost but it is low. |
Does that salary include housing, utilities, and food as well? Do most of these schools give you someplace to live?
| Anda wrote: |
| An English teaching certificate is worth a bit of effort but more than a certificate is a waste of time and money as you are better getting a degree is another field as EFL has had it's good / hay days. |
I agree. The cert is important, but not overly important to me. I can't back this up with any experience, but my intuition tells me that if a potential employer sees a 108-hour cert and some teaching experience already, they aren't going to go nuts researching the accreditation of the organization.
| Katja84 wrote: |
| I had assumed the person did not have a degree (the organization is open to people without a degree) so can I ask those of you "more experienced" FTs (I've only been in China for a year so I guess my comments are by definition invalid) what you would have considered his alternatives to be in such circumstances? Can a non-degree holder come to China to teach for six months and do a TEFL certificate beforehand by organizing things themselves? |
Great questions...takers? |
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Anda
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 2199
Location: Jiangsu Province
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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Public schools provide accommodation / free apartment and you can usually buy meals at the school for three to four RMB a meal. Utilities you generally have to pay but not always.
Last edited by Anda on Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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SnoopBot
Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 740
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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Speaking of TESOL certifications and qualifications. This was my first experience teaching in China.
I came in 2003 to finish my final research practicum course for my masters degree.
I signed a 6-month contract in China, once finished I cam back to the USA. Submitted and defended my research project , spent the Summer in the USA and returned to China with my masters degree.
When I was looking for another position, I had my original degree with me. It was passed around to various ESOL recruiters and university staff members. After the 4th time of them feeling the thickness and looking at the print, I was asked , "is this real."
They did not know what a Masters in Education with TESOL/Bilingual Education even was.
THAT is a good indication on how they view any ESL certification.
1. Either they do not know what it is
2. It must be fake because none of the other FT's have this type of degree/certification. (1st one they ever saw)
(I might add, one university told me, "that is ok" and that they would accept my Bachelor degree"... because they didn't understand my masters degree and they felt it was not related to teaching at their institution. Of course I ran away from their job booth)
Hopefully, things have changed since 2003. |
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Anda
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 2199
Location: Jiangsu Province
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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They know Bachelor, Master's and PHD plus an English certificate and that's all that matters.
Oh, our FT only has a Bachelor's degree!
We've got a good one now with a master's but we're still only paying him what we pay the others.
So what, our's has a PHD cause we provided it for him!
This game isn't rocket science! |
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SnoopBot
Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 740
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Anda wrote: |
They know Bachelor, Master's and PHD plus an English certificate and that's all that matters.
Oh, our FT only has a Bachelor's degree!
We've got a good one now with a master's but we're still only paying him what we pay the others.
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I hope the school doesn't decide to overload the Good teacher you have. (Master's one)
This happens often and at the same pay scale as others it doesn't take long for burn out to set in.
More hours, same pay leads to burnout.
I hated going off to business areas during weekends to teach at company locations. Often the other FT's would be having an outside barbecue or party telling me they would save me a hotdog when I got back.
I hope your school takes care of these types of teachers. |
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jeffinflorida
Joined: 22 Dec 2004
Posts: 2024
Location: "I'm too proud to beg and too lazy to work" Uncle Fester, The Addams Family season two
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| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:51 am Post subject: |
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Dude I can save you some money here: For only $1250 I will let you sleep on my couch, be my assistant, you can help teach my claases, mark my papers, score prtty chinese gilrs for me ( don't tell my Pretty Chinese Girlfriend about this...) and after 3 months I will personally print you up a TEFL certificate, a PHD in your chosen field ( based on life credits...) and help you book your next ticket to whereever you want to go...
AND as a bonus I will give you a share of a bridge in Brooklyn that I happen to own...
When are you coming? And you need to pay me in cash only please.
And bring me a six pack of size 13 athletic socks also please. |
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taoalchemist
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| jeffinflorida wrote: |
Dude I can save you some money here: For only $1250 I will let you sleep on my couch, be my assistant, you can help teach my claases, mark my papers, score prtty chinese gilrs for me ( don't tell my Pretty Chinese Girlfriend about this...) and after 3 months I will personally print you up a TEFL certificate, a PHD in your chosen field ( based on life credits...) and help you book your next ticket to whereever you want to go...
AND as a bonus I will give you a share of a bridge in Brooklyn that I happen to own...
When are you coming? And you need to pay me in cash only please.
And bring me a six pack of size 13 athletic socks also please. |
You saved me the trouble of making you look like an a-hole, thanks!
Can anyone give me an idea of how difficult it'd be to jump into a legal 6-month, second semester deal with a Bachelor's Degree? Thanks! |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 1:56 am Post subject: |
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| taoalchemist wrote: |
| Can anyone give me an idea of how difficult it'd be to jump into a legal 6-month, second semester deal with a Bachelor's Degree? Thanks! |
Two things to watch out for:
1. As you seem to be aware some of those short term positions would not employ you legally and would instead have you work on a visitors visa or perhaps a business visa (which may or may not be legal according to your specific circumstances). The z visa is obviously the best way to go. You may be able to find some schools that are willing to offer a Z visa for six month contract.
2. Research any opportunities well as it is possible that any school that is willing to employ you for six months only may not be best the school to be working for. Obviously it is in a schools best interests to secure a teacher for a full year if possible. Any school that cannot secure a teacher easily may be forced to accept short term applicants and you need to ask why. There may be legitimate reasons such as a previous teacher leaving early for personal reasons, but just be careful about this.
If money is not so important, but the experience and getting some in classroom experience is, then have you considered the legitimate humanitarian projects for poor areas. Check with your local authorities back home for information on legitimate not for profit organizations that run programs in China and then check with the forum members here to ensure that the location is genuinely one that needs volunteer humanitarian support. |
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malu
Joined: 22 Apr 2007
Posts: 1344
Location: Sunny Java
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:18 am Post subject: |
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Here's something to think about for the longer term: if you do some English teaching and discover you have a talent for classroom work, try to wriggle your way into a school-teaching gig that can use your IT background.
It's not easy, and there aren't many good vacancies, but life as a subject teacher aint bad sometimes. |
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vikuk
Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1842
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:01 am Post subject: |
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here's more food for thought on the kind of project highlighted in this thread - this is a section from an article in the Times -
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One of Britain�s leading charities has warned students not to take part in gap-year aid projects overseas which cost thousands of pounds and do nothing to help developing countries.
Voluntary Service Overseas (VSO) said that gap-year volunteering, highlighted by Princes William and Harry, has spawned a new industry in which students pay thousands of pounds for prepackaged schemes to teach English or help to build wells in developing countries with little evidence that it benefits local communities.
It said that �voluntourism� was often badly planned and spurious projects were springing up across Africa, Asia and Latin America to satisfy the demands of the students rather than the needs of locals. Young people would be better off simply travelling the world and enjoying themselves, it added.
Judith Brodie, the director of VSO UK, said: �While there are many good gap-year providers, we are increasingly concerned about the number of badly planned and supported schemes that are spurious - ultimately benefiting no one apart from the travel companies that organise them.�
VSO is drawing up a code of good practice to help gapyear students to find genuine voluntary work abroad.
The charity cited the case of a volunteer teacher in Africa who was surprised to be shunned by her fellow teachers, then discovered that her placement had led to a colleague being made redundant.
In another case, a volunteer in Mexico who thought that she would be working on a rural conservation project spent six months behind a desk in an office inputting data onto spreadsheets.
Another volunteer was asked to survey endangered coral reef in the Indian Ocean and dicovered that it had been surveyed countless times before by previous volunteers.
Taking a gap year used to be the preserve of only the wealthiest students, but it is now big business. Up to 200,000 people do it every year, including 130,000 school-leavers. The average gapyear traveller spends �4,800, and numerous companies have sprung up to get a slice of the market by offering prepackaged trips to projects for just two weeks at a time.
Gapyear.com, one of the biggest players, is offering places on dozens of voluntary projects, including work on a South African horse safari for �2,400 or two months observing coral and marine life in Borneo for �1,895. Another firm, i-to-i, is offering work with orphans in Argentina for �1,095.
In most cases the price does not cover the flight, but in-country travel, accommodation and an orientation session on arrival is included.
Ms Brodie urged students to go backpacking instead. �Young people want to make a difference, but they would be better off travelling and experiencing different cultures, rather than wasting time on projects that have no impact and can leave a big hole in their wallet,� she said.
Prince William went to Chile with Raleigh International in 2000 to help to build schools. The charity said that his work had sparked �a lot more interest� in its projects. Prince Harry worked with orphans in Lesotho.
Tom Griffiths, founder of gapyear.com, defended his business. �Some companies raise the expectations of students to unrealistic levels and make them think they will change the world. When they get there they discover they are only small players in the project and feel disappointed,� he said.
A spokeswoman for i-to-i defended its short-term voluntary breaks and said it made sure that all the projects were sustainable. �Not everyone has a year or two years to go off and do voluntary work,� she said.
Raleigh International backed VSO�s call for caution. �Students should be very careful about the voluntary work they choose,� a spokeswoman said. |
To read the full article go to -
http://timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/education/article2253726.ece |
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