Job Discussion Forums

[spiral78]

The OP is not expecting anything so unlikely as legal work permits for Spain, or Heather Locklear, either. He/she is simply trying to gather information about how to join the legions of under-the-table workers who spend a year making ends meet to experience some parts of life in Spain.

I don't advocate working illegally in any way, but I think it's important for newbies who are going there not to have some pie-in-the-sky dreams that they can do it legally.

If they go there with this dream, they are more likely to be unprepared for any problems they will encounter.

[mdk]

Spiral, I think we are in agreement here.


I personally think it is lametable that people go into any country and live on the "down low". In the case of people here in the US it's because they have a real economic hardship. In the case of westerners sneaking around in Spain it is just - not professional and I think they ought to have more maturity than that before they start pretending they are qualified to teach anything.

I put up some scheme's which might allow the OP to avoid going over there illegally. I got admitted to Murcia without being a US student but it was some time ago and maybe things have changed. Still, as I have said before, if the Russians can get in there legally, it's possible for westerners as well. If westerners lack the mental or financial wherewithal to do it, then they shouldn't be surprised if they aren't treated with respect -either as teachers or as human beings.

I gotta go to work so I can continue to get the scratch together to go back - legally. During my break I will play a lament on my extremely tiny violin for the predicament of all people who are sneaking around in Spain.

[spiral78]

put up some scheme's which might allow the OP to avoid going over there illegally. I got admitted to Murcia without being a US student but it was some time ago and maybe things have changed. Still, as I have said before, if the Russians can get in there legally, it's possible for westerners as well. If westerners lack the mental or financial wherewithal to do it, then they shouldn't be surprised if they aren't treated with respect -either as teachers or as human beings.

Things have changed. I, too, know North Americans who some years back had no trouble getting legal working papers - this was before EU ascendancy, though it's not the EU that makes laws, but the countries themselves.

It is NOT TRUE that, 'if Russians can get in there legally, it's possible for westerners as well.' Apples and oranges. The laws are different dependent upon your country of origin.

Further, it is not a lack of mental or financial wherewithal (excepting only billionaires who tend to be able to invest enough in a country to meet residency requirements based on investment). Mental wherewithal coupled with a reasonable amount of finances is STILL not going to get anyone a legal working permit in a country that doesn't hire North Americans legally as EFL teachers.

And the question of being treated with respect or not (except by some posters on this forum) has not come up.

[jovencito]

Speaking as a "sneaker arounder" I've yet to feel the urge to go hide behind the nearest tree when I see a policeman.

The moral debate will continue forever, should people work in Spain without a work permit?, should people do stem cell research?, should religion be taught in schools?

I won't go into the moral issue but I will say a few facts I've read and seen for myself. Spain is a modern democracy that is part of the EU and it has tough laws on immigration. Spain has the resources to stop people working without work permits. I have no work permit. I have no trouble finding work as an English teacher. I have no trouble leaving the country and coming back in. I have no trouble finding good language schools that pay well and do not care about work permits. I do not skulk around the streets constantly looking over my shoulder. I am not robbing anyone else of a job because I'm a cut-price option as I know that I get paid the same as the EU permit holding teachers. I know LOTS of other people in the same situation that I'm in. Will this ever change? Will Spain ever start enforcing its laws? Will spain ever start giving temporary visas to foreign English teachers? Who knows but a change to the situation that I am in right now does not seem to be on the forecast and that's fine by me.

It's really hard to get a work permit in Spain and part of the process is that you have to go home for a LONG time (you have to stay out of Spain for almost a year) until you find out if the permit is given or denied. Personally, I didn't have a year to waste so I took a chance plus I never planned on making Spain my permanent home.

It works for me, but everyone should make up their own mind.

[john_n_carolina]

..there is one legal program (spiral you probably know)...the ministry of education of Spain has an "assistant teacher" program....

it doesn't pay much and i think it's full for the year.

i forget the link, you probably know.

[spiral78]

If it's the one I'm thinking of, there are like 30-50 positions open yearly, and they commonly receive applications in the thousands...

Shall look for the link and repost if I can find it.

[MO39]

[mdk]

With respect, anybody who takes immigration advice from a free message board is simply not making good choices.

Now I have just been over to the San Francisco Spanish consulate website and they are listing several available visas - including a work visa.

I fully believe that if I was to walk into the consulate and ask to fill out an application pro bono, it would be largely a waste of time. That is why God gave us immigration lawyers.

Perhaps it is a personal choice. I have no intention of going over there and trying to live as an illegal. People who consider that a self respecting thing to do - what can I say? The guy who stool my bag in el raval doubtless considers himself a perfectly self respecting pick pocket.

Are ESL teachers so pathetic that they cannot get together the cash to go in the front door, but have to, instead, go in on the sneak? Your character is your fate.

Anyway, Spain is a nice place, but it isn't worth that to spend my life sneaking around there, hoping I won't get stopped by some guardia civil hardnose. It's a big world and if I can't get legal papers, there are lots of nice european places that need an English teacher. Teaching is hard enough, I have no intention from starting from the position of being a known illegal alien with my students.

[MO39]

[john_n_carolina]

[john_n_carolina]

....and here is the website for Language/Cultural Assistant program in Spain.....good luck, make sure you have something in your bank account

http://www.mec.es/sgci/usa/en/programs/us_assistants/default.shtml

[spiral78]

Maybe it's not that apt, but mdk has also limited his prospects by insisting that effective teaching involves use of the learner's L1 by a teacher...So, how's your Czech/Polish/Madyar/Romanian? Those are among the countries where US citizens are eligible for legal working permits as English teachers.

A more apt point may be that work visas vary somewhat by profession. The common European language for TEFL is that there are EU member citizens enough available to do the job (I am not addressing the issue of whether that's true - just that that is the official language in relation to our field). Therefore, there may be work visa information for people like international attourneys or engineers or etc. - but there are very few and rare loopholes for English teachers in Spain, Italy, France, Germany, etc.

[john_n_carolina]

...true, i didn't realize CZ and Romania are now legal to work?? thought just Poland.

anyways, here is a link to a website that has some international schools. im sure they would do a visa, but you'd probably have to be there in person, and then return to your country of origin. unless, it's the UK...which im sure they prefer to hire. in Europe, i heard they prefer to hire UK, mostly because we have so many accents and street language in the US. not to mention, we seem less professional...

here is the link:

http://www.idealspain.com/Pages/Information/internationalschools.htm

[sheikh radlinrol]

[spiral78]

International schools usually require accredited teachers, meaning you have to be licensed (and experienced) in some core subject in your home country. Professional, trained teachers, in other words.