Job Discussion Forums

[ghost]

In many countries where native English teach, there are language schools, Universities and academies where the native English teachers can take lessons in the local language.

In my case, I was able to study Turkish at the excellent T�mer Ankara (University of Ankara), when in Turkey, and Mandarin (Chinese) at one of the many local Universities in Taiwan which dispense Mandarin lessons to foreigners. In Taiwan, I studied Mandarin for 4 months at the excellent Chinese studies program at Providence University, Taichung/Shalu, Taiwan.

In Guatemala, where I taught for one year in 1995, there were great schools in Antigua and Quetzaltenango, which also offered homestays for rapid acquisition. Homestays would probably be out in Saudi, because of the reluctance of most Saudis to accommodate non muslim infidels. But what about courses?

What about in Saudi Arabia, are there language schools and academies where foreigners can take lessons in Arabic, in the evening or mornings before their workdays?

I get the impression that not many teachers bother to study Arabic in Saudi and other Gulf countries, and of course it is not easy, because so many of the locals are used to speaking English with foreigners, which was not the case in the previous countries where I taught. You would really have to be strong headed to insist the locals speak to you only in Arabic..

Problem number two, is the difference between the Arabic taught in a classic course and the vernacular spoken by most of the locals. Is it possible to take conversation courses in the local variety of arabic, rather than the more archaic/classic variety? I took a one month course in Alexandria, Egypt, in 1996, and it was basically ineffective, unfortunately.

Has anyone here at least reached a level where they could converse and communicate in Arabic at a level which covered most of their social needs? And are there academies in the cities where foreigners habitually teach in Saudi Arabia?

Thank you.

Ghost in Korea

[007]

[scot47]

My experience has been that it is best to find a competent teacher and hire him (her ?) on a one-to-one basis. Difficult to find one who is competent. Remember that diglossia is the rule here. There is a huge gap between formal standard Arabic and what is actually used in everyday life.

[Cleopatra]

[ghost]

[007]

[trapezius]

Cleopatra outlined the main reasons why a lot of expats don't pick up much Arabic here.

There *are* some places which offer classes in the big cities. LSI (Language Studies International) is a language institute which offers courses in Arabic. Perhaps Berlitz also does.

If you can find those courses, and have the time to go to them, that's great, otherwise the best way is to go to Jarir (the best local bookstore) and pick up a language pack with a combination of printed material and CDs. Then, you rip those CDs into MP3s, and download them onto your MP3 player (buy a cheap one for about SR. 200) and carry the conversational lessons with you. You won't believe how much time you have during the day when you can listen to them and read the book. And you won't have to spend extra time in the evening to take any classes!

www.rosettastone.com is touted as the best language software ever by the experts. It comes with a guarantee even, that if you are not speaking the language in e certain time (I think 3 months), you get your money back. Their method is used by Fortune 500 companies, the US State Department, and thousands of schools.

It is not available here, so get it before you come here.

[007]

[sheikh radlinrol]

I made a half-hearted attempt with Arabic, as do many ex-pats.
What I found most daunting, however, was being told these things.

1 A native teacher will, whether you like it or not, teach you the Arabic of the Koran and religious texts.

2 The Arabic used by the mass media has little in common with that spoken in the street.

3 Colloquial Arabic varies so much from country to country that the Arabic you might learn in Kuwait, for example, would be of little use in Beirut or Cairo.

I don't know if these things are true and I still wonder whether I missed a great opportunity to learn a major language or if the effort expended would have been wasted.
What do the other posters think?

[Cleopatra]

[trapezius]

If you learn MSA or Egyptian Arabic, then you can speak with any Arab out there.

Other dialects of Arabic might not be as useful. Lebanese Arabic is not bad, still very widely understood, but Moroccan Arabic on the other hand, can barely be understood by most Arabs even!

Yes, a proper Arabic teacher will teach you classical Arabic. Great for reading texts, but kind of useless on the street. That's why I say, buy a CD pack from a bookstore, and learn Arabic that way. They even come in different flavours: Egyptian, Saudi, Gulf, Levantine, etc.

www.rosettastone.com is the world's best.

Just a small pointer: Egyptian Arabic, though understood by all Arabs, is looked down upon by some people, both Arabs and non-Arabs, because, to put it mildly, it sounds "uncivilized." I personally dislike it as well. Sounds aweful, even when people with PhDs speak it, which I saw the other day, unfortunately. (not to mention the fact that they mutilate many of the sounds/letters)

Saudi and Lebanese flavours sound the best.

[sheikh radlinrol]

Interesting comments from Trapezius. But what is MSA? How far do different versions of Arabic vary from each other? Since you're clearly a fluent English speaker maybe you could compare the difference between Saudi Arabic/ Lebanese Arabic and English/ Australian English, for example?
Regards
SR

[trapezius]

MSA = Modern Standard Arabic

MSA, for lack of a better description, comes halfway between Classical/Quranic Arabic, and Colloquial Arabic, in terms of rules and difficulty. MSA is what you find in newspapers in Saudi, and is used for official communication, in almost all Arab countries.

There is not a huge difference between Saudi Arabic, Egyptian Arabic, and Levantine Arabic (Lebanon, Syria, Jordan).

In a way, you could say it would mirror the differences between English English, American English, and Australian English. Mostly the same, just some different phrases/words, especially pertaining to greetings, feelings, and some nouns.

You can see Egyptians speaking with Saudis all the time, or Lebanese with Saudis, or even Egyptians with Lebanese. They have no problems. But you can tell them apart from their language (if not by dress/looks), as you can recognize some of the colloquialisms/regionalisms, but also the overall accent (think of how an Australian sounds, vs. an American, even if they were to say the same exact sentence).

Where it starts to get difficult, even for some Arabs, is non-Egyptian North African Arabic. I have heard from Saudis and other Arabs that Algerian and Tunisian Arabic is not so bad for them (very bad for me), but Moroccan is actually difficult for them to understand (which means I wouldn't understand most of it). This might be likened to someone speaking in "jive"

From wikipedia:

[007]

[ghost]

McGill University advised me to study Arabic in Damascus, Syria. The Department of Middle East and Islamic studies at McGill sends their students to Damascus each year. It is also much cheaper to study there compared with other popular places such as the American University in Beirut, or the American University in Cairo.

The thing which I find is a shortcoming to the McGill program is that the focus is on reading and writing arabic, with little practice given to speaking. This means that McGill produces arab scholars who can read and write classical arabic, but are very deficient in the speaking department - sad...

Syria is a good place to learn Arabic, and Damascus is an intriguing city with the mix of muslims and christians living there, although christians are rapidly diminishing now in Damascus. I see many of them come to Montreal, Canada, as they feel more and more uncertain about their muslim neighbors now in Damascus ('Dimashq'). Relations between the two groups used to be a lot better a few years ago. The world is changing, and not for the better, unfortunately.


Ghost in Korea