Job Discussion Forums

[TEAM_PAPUA]

[philbags]

Ef CLT (Corporate Language Training) were really taking off in china, getting some of the better teachers by offering some of the better salaries. I know some very professional teachers who work for them in the U.K. as well. This is E.F. doing something to improve its tarnished image - so many of their schools having been slack - maybe it's time a few other schools followed suit.
See you after ramadamadingdong.
bags.

[guruengerish]

Thanks for that info Philbags.

I've been saying for years that EF China has possibly learned a lot from its mistakes in Indonesia.

To me EF China is way out in front, by recognising that EF teachers like a few home comforts, and provide the basics, such as microwave, fridge, internet and so on.

My former director of EF in Central Java told me that he could never understand why we western teachers made such a big fuss about living in the dump which he provided. There was a toilet, even if the water had to be carried from the front garden by bucket. A few rats was nothing. Yes, they would get around to installing a second toilet at the school.

There was no interest in all by EF heirarchy in teachers' basic needs. Just as long as the colours on the walls were correct and the blue dots were there, and heaven help any teacher hanging a poster or map on them!

EF Indonesia needs to get real, and check out a lot more than just the school buildings.

[treacle]

Calling for EF Indonesia to 'get real' is but a pipe dream I fear. Rather the onus should be on teachers (both existing and prospective) to stand their ground, not accept sub standard contractual arrangements and be assertive in their negotiations for basic compensation - decent housing, financial renumeration, bonuses etc.

Why don't EF Indonesia teachers take the initiative and form a union to protect themselves and new recruits? I'm sure there would be a vast number of willing applicants ready to support such a movement.

Then you can take the battle straight to the EF head office and force improvements from the top down.

Just a thought, what does everyone else think?

[malu]

[ezekiel]

If that's the case, then, just for the record the EF organisation still owes me a month's salary of 6 million IDR which I was not paid when EF Medan collapsed.

[laughing_magpie06]

A quick answer treacle, I really like your idea and suggested this to all my peers at two of the EF's I worked for. The crowd I worked with in West Jakarta were to be frank not team players and followed whatever it was the DoS wanted even though in my first week I could see he was trying to screw everyone.
At Cibubur they were a little better and once took a list of complaints to the management and threatened to walk out if these simple conditions weren't met. The owner then replaced both the DoS and manager thinking they were weak in the face of criticism. The new DoS is an a..licker who backstabs his teachers and a manager who is like a pit bull and ruthless. She once planned to fire everyone and replace them with her lackies from other branches.
To put things in a nutshell, EF generally hire young backpackers who weren't well versed on rights and unionism and are part of the problem not only here in Indonesia but in their very conservative homelands where union membership has plummeted in the last ten years.
Products of the 'me' generation.

[Dave Nesbit]

Oh dear, Maggie. Let it go, mate. You failed to make it through your probationary period at EF West Jakarta in March 2005 for the simple reason that at that time you were not up to the job. No one was out to screw you or anyone else.

[laughing_magpie06]

Dave, I am starting to wonder if you are my shadow as everytime I post you seem to follow right behind. If you read my post carefully I was offering my thoughts on teachers being supportive of each other against management which even you must admit is sorely lacking at the moment. The salaries and conditions offered by most EF franchises just doesn't seem to match other schools and a lot of teachers only have themselves to blame. I made a general point about the current generation looking out for themselves-care to disagree? I am not making a statement attacking you personally and I even said more about another franchise. Now what are your views on the current topic, not just about me?

[Dave Nesbit]

mags,

A couple of points. Firstly, yes, I am going to post in response to every pop you have at me. Secondly, ........everything the DoS wanted even though in my first week I could see he was trying to screw everyone. certaintly reads as a statement attacking (you) personally

Thirdly, notwithstanding the above it seems you are trying to make a valid point, so let's have a go at answering it.

It would indeed be good if everyone showed solidarity in the face of injustice and crappy conditions (Jeez, how pretentious does that sound ) However, as you point out, it's usually not going to happen. The reason being human nature and a natural inclination to look out for number one first and foremost. Now, you or I may be experiencing what we percieve to be injustice or unfairness in our jobs but if the guy sitting at the next desk to us in the teachers room isn't in the same boat then he or she is not going to link arms with us and roll through the school 'demanding justice' and singing "We are the world". It's just not going to happen.

People will always "leave it to someone else" to organise things such as you are the other guys here are suggesting, because people, in general, are lazy and selfish. Always have been and always will be. I don't think it's so much a 'current generation' thing, rather a 'human nature' one.

Right, EF stuff now. I guess we will have to agree to disagree regarding EF WJKT as found it to be ok and you didn't. Regarding EF as a whole, well, you have worked in more places than me (EF ) and so perhaps you have a bit more insight. I can only speak from experience and opinion, as you can, and state that EF is a good starting place for ESL teachers. Yes, the salaries are lower than most other places, but most other places are not 'entry level' places. IMO EF pays starting teachers (1 or 2 years experience) about the going rate. A teacher with 2 or more years experience should then be able to 'move up', as you yourself appear to have done. However, I would wager my five bob note to your thrup penny bit that you wouldn't have got your present job as a first year inexperienced teacher.

The majority of 'good' EF teachers will move on after a year or so. They do so mostly, IMO, for financial reasons and career progression and not really because they have been treated badly. This means that during their tenure at EF they are reasonably happy, they know at the end of a year or two they will move on, and so simply can't be a**ed to set up any sort of union or workers group.

[englishgibson]

[pauleslteacher1]

A quick update to the original posting...

I just saw a "spanduk" (banner) indicating "big discounts" for the new local EF located in an unsavory location....

Hmmmm.... I wonder why.....

[philbags]

I was out socially with an agent scouting in the U.K. for reputable boarding schools for her C.I.S. operation. She was surprised to hear me talk about 'English First'; in her experience , the whole organisation is now called Education First and branches further into mainstream education and training in languages other than English - anybody know anything 'bout that? It was a new one on me.
Is it really true that one of the Indonesian EF schools had a website calling itself 'English Fist'? - I hope so.
Abysinnia.
P.

[englishgibson]

EF since founded in 1965 has been cloned into a few species

there's an EF Education, EF, EF English First, English Town etc...some come out of the original organization and some don't