Job Discussion Forums

[Def]

Hey all.

I�ve been reading around the forums for a few months, and the general consensus from posts all around the globe seems to be that prospective teachers should be wary of positions advertised online, as any that need to be filled from overseas may have some heinous reason why they can�t be filled �on the ground�. That�s fine, seems sensible to be cautious.

Given that, coupled with my own thoughts on the matter, I�d certainly be disinclined to just casually accept a position offered after a couple of email correspondences with a school, in a country I don�t necessarily know. Still, I was wondering if it�s at least worth getting in contact with places in advance that are advertising for applicants - for instance schools advertising in the job section of this site - and expressing an interest/asking for information/discussing the possibility of meeting in person once I�m there/etc? Or is it best to just ignore online advertising entirely and wait until I�m in a chosen country to get in contact with places? Maybe it�s just a waste of their/my time, while I'm still overseas?

Just to clarify� this really is more about making contact/expressing interest, rather than finding a position from outside any given country and getting flown in. My general thinking is that not every school advertising online can be a cesspool, and some may appreciate inquiries from prospective teachers who are heading overseas � but I really wouldn�t know. Hence the post.

Apologies if this has been addressed elsewhere, but everything I�ve come across so far relates more specifically to applying for/accepting positions, rather than expressions of interest, and the possibility of further contact after arrival.

Anywho, don�t be shy (though from what I�ve read on here, no one is!), don�t sugar-coat it, just hit me with facts. Or� personal opinion, personal experience, stories of friends who had neighbours who had parakeets� etc.


Cheers!


PS. For the sake of information, I�m going to be heading to Eastern Europe (exact destination up for debate), though this seems to be a fairly universal topic, which is why it�s getting posted� here, instead of in a particular country�s forum.

[tedkarma]

[Def]

All very valid points, thanks.

Heh, no, I wouldn't advocate anyone "casually accept" any position... in any field. Common sense is required regardless of circumstance.

It's just I know that in Australia many legitimate schools advertise positions on their websites, as well as on Australian job sites. Which is why I find it difficult to believe that every school overseas, that advertises online, is a sham. (And no, I don't think every country is like Australia, but I can't really accept that this would be the only nation to advertise legitimate positions online.) Still, while I have experience in this field in Australia, I have none when it comes to overseas opportunities... so I'm inclined to throw the matter into a forum and see what perspectives others with greater 'international' experience may have.

I don't for a minute think that it's necessarily a breeze getting hired just because you're in a country, or that every advertised position online is a con. On a personal level though, I know I'd feel more comfortable if I could see what I was heading into, before agreeing to it. Which is where the query of whether it's worth at least getting in contact with places before arrival comes into things.

[Guy Courchesne]

http://www.tefllogue.com/finding-a-job/can-you-spot-a-scam.html

Timely...TEFL Logue is writing about this with some links to other resources to help navigate these murky waters.

[GambateBingBangBOOM]

I really think that without internet advertising for EFL positions (and ESL ones, too) the market for teaching English would be much, much smaller than it is. Just like without the internet, the pool of people with graduate degrees in this area would also be much, much smaller. The internet allows people to access information from a distance much better than in the past (like easily being able to make international telephone calls for not all that much money largely did away with the need to snail mail handwritten letters across the world). It just makes things a lot easier and faster.

As was pointed out, if you know something about the country that is advertising, then you will be in a better postition to judge the ad. There are scams out there, but then I would say most aren't. As an example, the JET (Japan exchange and Teaching) program- it's a government program that gets mostly recent graduates to work for Boards of Education in mostly, but not exclusively rural areas and is commonly thought of as by far the best first job going in Japan- and often the best first job in Asia, period- has advertised on this site in the past- individual hiring areas do their own thing to get the word out to apply.

Think of the ways that people get jobs in your home country. If it's anything at all like in Canada, then most jobs are filled through word of mouth, then if that doesn't work, then an ad is placed on a work-area specific website (so entry level positions for university graduates are placed on campus worklink, arts postions are placed on work in culture, etc). That's what this web site's international and Korean job sections are for (and the individual country forums can help people figure out how things work in each country, so can be looked at as a first step in researching the country, right after you read the job ad).

Most of the time, employers can't fill the postions they have with English native speakers who are already in the country (it would be virtually impossible for this to happen in a place like Korea) so they advertise on a niche site. Another issue is that sometimes there are foreign people available locally, but they don't have the required qualifications- that's what happens in Japan very often.

Also, I don't think many people are taking jobs overseas just from a few emails. There is going to be a telephone interview. Details of who to call and when are normally sent after the school receives the application, if they like what they see and want to take it further. If you do a search, you will probably be able to find some key questions to ask in this interview (they are trying to hear your voice and get an idea of yoiur personality, you are trying to get a picture of what it will be like in the school). For example, if you ask to contact one of their current teachers, and they don't help you do that (either by refusing or by just ignoring it), then you should walk away, because it means they are worried about what that person would have to say about the job or the people they (and if you took the job you) work for.

[tedkarma]

Here is a webpage that has the questions you need to know answers to - before accepting a position overseas:

http://www.tefldaddy.com/Need_to_know_first.htm

The focus is on finding the right position for you and avoiding problems.

[Def]

Thanks for the sites guys, they're great.

[GambateBingBangBOOM]

[Def]

Again, valid points, cheers.

So many things to consider. Argh!

Good times.

[Jameso]

Sorry, just noticed this and had one thought. Trust your gut. If something seems to easy (eg. a job offer after a couple of e-mails and no telephone interview) - Be wary. If something seems a bit dodgy in the telephone interview (eg. sounds more like a sales call than an interview - and I've had a few of these) - Be wary. If they won't put you in touch with someone that already works for them, or has recently left - Be very wary.

Listen to the advice here, but most importantly - trust your gut reaction.

Good luck

[Def]

Heh, aye, you're absolutely right. Instinctive reactions are often worth paying attention to. Thanks for the tips on what to look out for.