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johnchina
Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 816
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 Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:56 am Post subject: none |
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Just because a person is disgruntled, doesn't mean they are wrong.
I worked as a manager for an American company in Eastern Europe. I was extremely disgruntled. My boss was a secretary from New york with NO management experience who had never been outside of the US - not even to Canada/Mexico. Her "management" skills involved telling everyone what to do though her translators (myself and another employee) and whenever anyone asked 'why?' her response was "Because that's the way we do it in the States" - which she wouldn't (didn't) know anyway, because she had never done those jobs in the States.
Nobody is indispensible, eh? Well, the other translator left soon after the secretary arrived. I lasted several months longer. Repeated requests to the management in the States to send someone else were refused. Eventually, I left and the branch collapsed the very next day.
People who get disgruntled are often the people who can see what the problems are and become frustrated because nothing is done about them.
I repeat - just because a person is disgruntled, doesn't mean they are wrong!
For the record, I am happy to state that I did consider myself superior to that NY secretary - at least in terms of business knowledge, knowledge of the local language/culture and in terms of education (she didn't even have a high school diploma!!).
However, I did not consider myself indispensible - even though I turned out to be! |
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arioch36
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 3589
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Just because a person is disgruntled, doesn't mean they are wrong. |
Agree totally.
And in a smaller place, there key people
And just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean there isn't really someone out to get me 
Good night John Boy (Waltons. Any one able to remember that?
Last edited by arioch36 on Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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william wallace
Joined: 14 May 2003
Posts: 2869
Location: in between
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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| How about denial ? I'm not in china, or I could go the other way....China is not an inhospitable place to me. |
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Teatime of Soul
Joined: 12 Apr 2007
Posts: 905
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| mandarinstudent wrote: |
| OGFT wrote: |
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| In other words, if you left your employer, they should be at a loss. |
An employment organization should be set up so as to not suffer, logistically or administratively, from the departure of an employee.
Stop defining yourself by your job and look instead to your past times to determine self worth. |
That makes absolutely no sense. If that were the case, then companies would never invest any money training anyone because everyone is expendable. Everyone would make the same wage because they are all worth the same to the company. If you owned a company and had an employee that you invested 5 years of training on, and this employee did a fantastic job, wouldn't your company feel a loss if he decided to leave? Of course it would because you have to find a new employee, train him/her, and wait X number of years before he/she reaches the level of competency of the original employee. All of this costs time and money, not to mention the intangible qualities that are leaving with the original employee.
Did you think at all before typing that statement?...No wonder the Universities here believe we are so expendable...there are too many idiots in China teaching English. |
"The graveyards are full of indispensable people" - Charles de Gaulle |
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Worldly
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Posts: 74
Location: The Cosmos
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| mandarinstudent wrote: |
Just another example...
Today the school informed me that I will be teaching a new class made up of students from every different major. It would be an elective class, meaning that anyone that wanted to could sign up. First the English head asked me, "So, how many students do you want in the class?" Since my contract says each class will have approximately 30 students I replied, "30, that's what my contract says." She looked shocked. Then she said, "Since this is an elective course, we didn't buy books for the class." Again, my contract clearly states that there will be a book for each class. I don't know what the rest of you think, but creating a semester's worth of plans from scratch is a lot more work than working from a book. I said to her, "My contract says that each class will have a book." She replied, "But this is just an elective class, you can teach whatever you want." (Meaning: I will have to do buttloads of research and planning for no extra money) I said, "A contract is a contract, right?" She gave me a look like, "How dare this peon not blindly obey?" Now we are going to have a meeting tomorrow to "talk about it."
I know that this post isn't very productive and it won't change anyone's mind..I just want to gripe a bit. 9.5 more months............. |
On the contrary.....it's an excellent post, and a good example of a typical problem that probably occurs more often than we realize.
Ironically, I faced an almost identical predicament. I was "directed" to teach an elective course to a cohort group of engineering students leaving for a prestigious engineering university in the UK in six months. No books, no advanced notice, and I had to develop a course and lesson plan from scratch. Yes....a lot of work, and an almost ridiculous request from any level-headed manager, but it's typical in developing nations.
I would use the opportunity to be innovative and creative, and use whatever means necessary to maintain the interest of your students. I found using newspaper/Internet articles on topics of interest to most students (usually something to do with Western culture and attitudes) worked wonders. I also forced the students to work in groups, presented them with real, work-related problems, and required short oral presentations to the rest of the class on alternative solutions to the problems. I also focused on the differences in classroom decorum and teaching styles they were likely to face in a UK university.
Be sure to document your work to create the course, and use it on your CV. Hopefully, somebody will appreciate it. I certainly appreciate your problem, and I wish you the best of luck. It could turn out to be a lot of fun, if you approach it the right way!
I hope you are properly compensated, but it would not surprise me if the Chinese manager is insensitive to any additional recognition or reward. |
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OGFT
Joined: 24 Jun 2006
Posts: 432
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:40 am Post subject: |
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| That makes absolutely no sense. If that were the case, then companies would never invest any money training anyone because everyone is expendable. |
Cross training should take care of that. No one needs an employer to pat them on the head and to tell them "good job". The rewards of a job well done is a continued "paycheck". |
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7969
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:50 am Post subject: |
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| OGFT wrote: |
| Quote: |
| That makes absolutely no sense. If that were the case, then companies would never invest any money training anyone because everyone is expendable. |
Cross training should take care of that. No one needs an employer to pat them on the head and to tell them "good job". The rewards of a job well done is a continued "paycheck". |
precisely. those who need continued pats on the back and other such things are insecure in some way (my opinion). some people need that. others just get on with the job. |
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Ahchoo
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 606
Location: Earth
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:14 am Post subject: |
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| Just because a person is disgruntled, doesn't mean they are wrong. |
Is it also the case then, that just because a person is gruntled, doesn't mean they're right?
Sorry, couldn't help myself, I'll get me 'at) |
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mandarinstudent
Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 91
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:54 am Post subject: |
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| No one needs an employer to pat them on the head and to tell them "good job". The rewards of a job well done is a continued "paycheck" |
Are you an uneducated steel mill worker from the Depression Era? That statement makes you sound like one. I don' t know about the rest of you, but I would like more from my job than just a "paycheck". After your basic needs are met (food, shelter, safety, etc.), it is normal to want to fulfill esteem and self-actualization needs. Anyone who took Psych. 101 should know that. If one is living paycheck to paycheck, has no education or hopes of acquiring one, and is stuck in a dead end job with no way to escape, then I could see the mindset of, "Well, I'm just happy with my paycheck so that I can buy groceries." I'm not in that position, so I would like more from my job than money alone. I'm not saying I need constant praise, but I would like to feel as if I am an important part of a team and that my contributions matter.
| Quote: |
| Cross training should take care of that. |
Ahh...cross training! Why didn't I think of that? We'll just "cross train" the engineers to replace our top salesman who exceeds his quota by 50% every period. The engineer could do an equally good job, right? We'll just cross train the janitor so that he can step up when the analyst that beats the market by 40% every year leaves our firm. We won't suffer in the least bit, right? I'm standing by my original assertion that although one quality worker will not make or break a good organization, every attempt to keep that employee, including making him/her feel vital to the company, should be made. |
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shuize
Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Posts: 1270
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:59 am Post subject: |
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| mandarinstudent wrote: |
| Are you an uneducated steel mill worker from the Depression Era? That statement makes you sound like one. I don' t know about the rest of you, but I would like more from my job than just a "paycheck". After your basic needs are met (food, shelter, safety, etc.), it is normal to want to fulfill esteem and self-actualization needs. Anyone who took Psych. 101 should know that. If one is living paycheck to paycheck, has no education or hopes of acquiring one, and is stuck in a dead end job with no way to escape, then I could see the mindset of, "Well, I'm just happy with my paycheck so that I can buy groceries." I'm not in that position, so I would like more from my job than money alone. I'm not saying I need constant praise, but I would like to feel as if I am an important part of a team and that my contributions matter. |
Just out of curiosity, how long have you been in the working world? I was with you in the other thread for refusing to teach a last minute class with no textbook, but here you just sound like a crybaby.
If validation means that much to you, you might want to think of a different line of work.
Last edited by shuize on Thu Sep 20, 2007 9:29 am; edited 1 time in total |
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7969
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 9:12 am Post subject: |
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| mandarinstudent wrote: |
| Quote: |
| No one needs an employer to pat them on the head and to tell them "good job". The rewards of a job well done is a continued "paycheck" |
Are you an uneducated steel mill worker from the Depression Era? That statement makes you sound like one. I don' t know about the rest of you, but I would like more from my job than just a "paycheck". After your basic needs are met (food, shelter, safety, etc.), it is normal to want to fulfill esteem and self-actualization needs. Anyone who took Psych. 101 should know that. If one is living paycheck to paycheck, has no education or hopes of acquiring one, and is stuck in a dead end job with no way to escape, then I could see the mindset of, "Well, I'm just happy with my paycheck so that I can buy groceries." I'm not in that position, so I would like more from my job than money alone. I'm not saying I need constant praise, but I would like to feel as if I am an important part of a team and that my contributions matter.
| Quote: |
| Cross training should take care of that. |
Ahh...cross training! Why didn't I think of that? We'll just "cross train" the engineers to replace our top salesman who exceeds his quota by 50% every period. The engineer could do an equally good job, right? We'll just cross train the janitor so that he can step up when the analyst that beats the market by 40% every year leaves our firm. We won't suffer in the least bit, right? I'm standing by my original assertion that although one quality worker will not make or break a good organization, every attempt to keep that employee, including making him/her feel vital to the company, should be made. |
mandarinstudent, after reading your posts, i`m just curious how much work experience you have?
employees at most organizations/companies are made aware of their value to the company thru yearly performance appraisals, pay raises, increased benefits, a gold watch on retirement and possibly a pension. and an occasional pat on the back.
on the other hand, i'd guess that 95% of the people who take an esl job in china wont be here after one year. of the other 5% who stay, few of those will actually be promoted to any position of authority or receive any free training or substantial increase in benefits year after year.
this esl business isnt set up for long term employment/career progression like most jobs back home. and most of the foreigners in this esl business are only in it for a lark. if you want to find out how your school rewards its long term employees, then talk to the chinese teachers. because most schools and most students here know the FT is just a passerby and can be easily replaced. and maybe thats why your school, in your view, has treated you shoddily. |
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mandarinstudent
Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 91
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 9:44 am Post subject: |
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| 7969 wrote: |
| mandarinstudent wrote: |
| Quote: |
| No one needs an employer to pat them on the head and to tell them "good job". The rewards of a job well done is a continued "paycheck" |
Are you an uneducated steel mill worker from the Depression Era? That statement makes you sound like one. I don' t know about the rest of you, but I would like more from my job than just a "paycheck". After your basic needs are met (food, shelter, safety, etc.), it is normal to want to fulfill esteem and self-actualization needs. Anyone who took Psych. 101 should know that. If one is living paycheck to paycheck, has no education or hopes of acquiring one, and is stuck in a dead end job with no way to escape, then I could see the mindset of, "Well, I'm just happy with my paycheck so that I can buy groceries." I'm not in that position, so I would like more from my job than money alone. I'm not saying I need constant praise, but I would like to feel as if I am an important part of a team and that my contributions matter.
| Quote: |
| Cross training should take care of that. |
Ahh...cross training! Why didn't I think of that? We'll just "cross train" the engineers to replace our top salesman who exceeds his quota by 50% every period. The engineer could do an equally good job, right? We'll just cross train the janitor so that he can step up when the analyst that beats the market by 40% every year leaves our firm. We won't suffer in the least bit, right? I'm standing by my original assertion that although one quality worker will not make or break a good organization, every attempt to keep that employee, including making him/her feel vital to the company, should be made. |
mandarinstudent, after reading your posts, i`m just curious how much work experience you have?
employees at most organizations/companies are made aware of their value to the company thru yearly performance appraisals, pay raises, increased benefits, a gold watch on retirement and possibly a pension. and an occasional pat on the back.
on the other hand, i'd guess that 95% of the people who take an esl job in china wont be here after one year. of the other 5% who stay, few of those will actually be promoted to any position of authority or receive any free training or substantial increase in benefits year after year.
this esl business isnt set up for long term employment/career progression like most jobs back home. and most of the foreigners in this esl business are only in it for a lark. if you want to find out how your school rewards its long term employees, then talk to the chinese teachers. because most schools and most students here know the FT is just a passerby and can be easily replaced. and maybe thats why your school, in your view, has treated you shoddily. |
Right, I made the same point earlier. We are temporary, so we are not valuable. Actually, I said that in the very first post. Given the fact that we are just expendable monkeys, how can we, as FTs, get job satisfaction? That was the original point of this thread. A few people have made nice suggestions, lets see if there are any more. |
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7969
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:34 am Post subject: |
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how can you get job satisfaction? that's up to you.
a - b = s
a represents pluses at your place of work, b represents minuses. s represents level of satisfaction. if s is a positive integer, you're probably reasonably satisfied. if not, then chances are you should quit. |
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mandarinstudent
Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 91
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| shuize wrote: |
| mandarinstudent wrote: |
| Are you an uneducated steel mill worker from the Depression Era? That statement makes you sound like one. I don' t know about the rest of you, but I would like more from my job than just a "paycheck". After your basic needs are met (food, shelter, safety, etc.), it is normal to want to fulfill esteem and self-actualization needs. Anyone who took Psych. 101 should know that. If one is living paycheck to paycheck, has no education or hopes of acquiring one, and is stuck in a dead end job with no way to escape, then I could see the mindset of, "Well, I'm just happy with my paycheck so that I can buy groceries." I'm not in that position, so I would like more from my job than money alone. I'm not saying I need constant praise, but I would like to feel as if I am an important part of a team and that my contributions matter. |
Just out of curiosity, how long have you been in the working world? I was with you in the other thread for refusing to teach a last minute class with no textbook, but here you just sound like a crybaby.
If validation means that much to you, you might want to think of a different line of work. |
To answer your question, I've been working since I was 15 (27 now). I put myself through college from start to finish with no help from my parents and no school loans after the 1st year. I took a break in the middle of college and moved to NYC, not knowing a soul and with only 2 months' rent in my pocket, to try to start a band. I know what it is like to bust your balls and be poor, working in jobs with low job satisfaction. Its just that I would think that teaching should give you a bit more satisfaction than waiting tables while in college or flipping burgers as a 16 year old.
Also, if you read the thread, you would know that I AM considering a different line of work. Actually, I am not just considering it, I am making it happen. I'm currently in the process of applying to MBA programs back in the States. I took the GMAT and scored in the 96th percentile. Couple that with my 4.0 graduating GPA in Finance and I think I will do alright. Definitely not Harvard or anything, but I will be OK. Don't worry about me.
Last edited by mandarinstudent on Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:43 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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johnchina
Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 816
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:32 pm Post subject: none |
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"Validation" and "praise" and "pats on backs" not only raise a person's self-esteem (which strikes me as a good thing, even if some smirk at the idea), but also tells a person that they are going about their job (or studies) in the right manner. I truly wonder what some people posting here are like in the classroom! I mean, how about praising students when they produce good work or get the right answers? Seems to me like something every good teacher should do! I even praise students when they get the wrong answer! I praise them for having a go, which most Chinese students won't do!
It seems to me that the attitude that English teachers are here for the short term and therefore don't get praise/validation (or whatever you choose to call it) creates a self-fulfilling prophecy. You don't expect praise, therefore you don't get it. This is not my experience at all. I have been involved in teacher-training programmes where I know I probably not see the students after the week is up. At the end of such programmes, I have invariably been praised. That's after just a WEEK!
Career progression and 'validation' are not the same thing. There are many teachers who are happy to teach, teach, teach rather than move up the ladder into admin, etc. They still get 'validation'.
A school that treats ANYONE (teacher, admin staff, cleaner, client) shoddily is damaging its own reputation. A teacher might only be there for a year, but (s)he almost certainly knows other people who might want a teaching job. The fact that many Chinese schools treat their FTs badly because they are only going to be there short-term is a clear indication of how poor the management at these schools is.
In my experience the main (NB: "main", not "only"!) reason that people don't receive extra benefits and training is simply that they don't ask for it. I do ask for it and I do get it.
"If validation means that much to you, you might want to think of a different line of work." Sorry, shuize, but that really is a pathetic comment. Every line of work that I have ever heard of involves 'validation' of an employees work, if the management know their stuff - EVERY!
MandarinStudent - Good for you for taking the initiative and making changes! That's kinda how people progress, as I'm sure you realise. Pity that some others haven't figured that out yet! |
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