| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Shan-Shan
Joined: 28 Aug 2003
Posts: 1074
Location: electric pastures
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Worldly
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Posts: 74
Location: The Cosmos
|
 Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:13 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
For those that teach IELTS Preparation in China, I'm very interested in your opinion of the content of this teacher's recommendations.
The title of this YouTube video is "IELTS Cheats." However, I didn't hear any discussion regarding cheating. I heard a reference to the inability to bribe in Australia, but that's all. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
william wallace
Joined: 14 May 2003
Posts: 2869
Location: in between
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
nil
Last edited by william wallace on Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
johnchina
Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 816
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:39 am Post subject: none |
|
|
Shan-Shan - Thanks for that post! I love the "Hey, I'm a casual, fair dinkum, yet sophisticated, Aussie bloke with my ciggies and wine" approach!
Worldly - The implication that bribery doesn't work in Australia is clearly that it does work elsewhere. It works in China, where money does change hands between candidates and examiners (and possibly British Council staff) and sexual favours have been exchanged for higher IELTS scores.
Both WW and I are very familiar with IELTS, aren't we old chap?
I agree entirely with the guy when he says that IELTS is more than just knowing basic English. Candidates do need knowledge of the world around them and be able to explain things. Well, not in China - probably because most examiners are incapable of such intellectual challenges! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
johnchina
Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 816
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:20 am Post subject: none |
|
|
| You have to watch one of his other videos "The Class of 30 July 2007". Stick around for the second half - "They plagiarise, they can't reference, they don't go to libraries, so their work is ..." Looking forward to watching his other videos! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
latefordinner
Joined: 19 Aug 2003
Posts: 973
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 11:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
| JohninC, I'll have to look at those as well. From what you report, he summarizes what I've been saying for the past 2,000 years. (Well no not that long, it just feels that way) I'll agree that the vid Shan-shan posted is excellent, nicely states the beginning of the problem so many of our students face. I'm not a big fan of putting one's vices on public display, but I like this guy, I'd share a bottle or 3 with him any day. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
william wallace
Joined: 14 May 2003
Posts: 2869
Location: in between
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
yada yada
Last edited by william wallace on Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
johnchina
Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 816
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:53 am Post subject: none |
|
|
latefordinner - I think it'd be 3 bottles each with this guy!
WW - Yes, with the development of society ... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
englishgibson
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4345
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 7:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
double post, sorry 
Last edited by englishgibson on Sun Sep 23, 2007 7:36 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
englishgibson
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4345
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 7:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| I heard a reference to the inability to bribe in Australia |
bribin' s anywhere/everywhere...in some places they might call it differently...regardin' IELTS in china, it's a great market for those desperate ones that want / have to get a degree of some sort and are unable to in their homeland .... i love the fact that students are allowed to go to exams every month, pay their money and try to get a higher score than last month ... some examiners are apparently so busy that students have to travel to other chinese cities (even airlines and hotels make a buck) 
i'd fail my students every month to see them again
peace to IELTS examiners as well as their techniques
and
cheers and beers to the huge market in china that provides as with endless opportunities  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
william wallace
Joined: 14 May 2003
Posts: 2869
Location: in between
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 10:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
EAP,CPE,BEST,PET,IELTS,TOEFL,iBT TOEFL,MTELP,BC,IDP
Last edited by william wallace on Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Shan-Shan
Joined: 28 Aug 2003
Posts: 1074
Location: electric pastures
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| EAP,CPE,BEST,PET,IELTS,TOEFL,iBT TOEFL,MTELP,BC,IDP |
Goodbye English, Hello NEWSPEAK! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
johnchina
Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 816
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:08 am Post subject: none |
|
|
EG - Yeah, daft IELTS examiners haven't figured out they could get more cash by failing people! Then again, some unis now accept band 4 (for foundation courses, admittedly) and scoring less than a 4 is pretty tough in IELTS. If you take the trouble to memorise a couple of answers, you get a 5 in China.
It used to be that you had to wait 90 days before taking the test a second time. The reasoning was that it would take at least this long to increase your score. Not any longer, apparently! It takes a week! There must have been some breakthrough in language acquisition research whilst I was in class ... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
englishgibson
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4345
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
yeah there must've been
| Quote: |
| It used to be that you had to wait 90 days before taking the test a second time. The reasoning was that it would take at least this long to increase your score. |
or, to increase their revenue and the job opportunities for examiners
now, i must say that i love those ch-english IELTS books (printed in beijing) that've been "adjusted" or shall i say "re-edited" to be "more accessible" to chinese .... no offence to anyone involved in this fine operation of "re-editing" but i wish i could use the western IELTS books (with no mistakes or chinese in) and i wish they were more accessible to me or to the schools/students around china...i feel there's a nice cooperation in between the chinese officials and the BC office in this lovely country
peace to all kinda cooperation that helps education
and
cheers and beers to all FTs invloved in IELTS |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
clarrie
Joined: 05 Apr 2005
Posts: 75
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 6:02 am Post subject: bribes!!?? |
|
|
| johnchina wrote: |
Worldly - The implication that bribery doesn't work in Australia is clearly that it does work elsewhere. It works in China, where money does change hands between candidates and examiners (and possibly British Council staff) and sexual favours have been exchanged for higher IELTS scores.
Both WW and I are very familiar with IELTS, aren't we old chap?
|
This notion that examiners can be bribed amuses me! Perhaps people who are mascarading as examiners and sucking potential bribers in are the people getting a little grease on the palms, but I can't see how it would work wth examiners/BC staff; I could see how ... 'trustworthy' centre staff might big note themselves and promise something they can have absolutley no sway on so they can manage a little bit of touch and tickle or a few of the readies, but it has to be pointed out tat even this would come to nought!!
There seems to be a widely held belief that results in China are so low because of the bribe factor, but to echo the presenter, it has to do wth language ability and production on the day/s!
Why is it highly unlikely that an examiner would take a bribe?
He or she is being paid for a task which is very closely scrutinised and apart froma recording which will verify results it also acts as a 'flag' to be reassessed should there be a two band difference between the different skills! And guess what, if a candidate is about a 4 on reading, writing. listening, s/he will also be about a 4 on the speaking module. Funny that! So, the candidate is about a four during the speaking exam and knows it, but says s/he needs/wants a 6 to ... do whatever and offers a little incentive for 'closer consideration'. Immediatley a potential 2 band discrepncy which will be flagged and checked. The examiner can receive a warning and multiple warnings can see the person suspended until s/he re- ...'qualifies'! How much is a briber going to pay that will make it worthwhile for the examiner. Wouldn't happen!
How does the briber get to other staff in the system to be sure that his/her scores will be adjusted across the assessmet of the various skills? Speaking examiners for a start have no idea who they are going to be examining until they get their list/s; I have no idea how markers of scripts could be known in advance; and even if reading and listening test results are tampered with at the time of marking - how would the marker know if s/he were going to receive the briber's test materials? - how would that marker get access to the other scores to be sure of correlation so as not to flag re-marks?
Sure, I agree that Chinese personnel associated with the exam are probably taking bribes on the basis of promises that can't be met, and this is the important thing, Chinese personel can't change the overall result!
I think why the suggestion of bribery raises its head is because people are at a loss to explain how students who present themselves with a certain score are often totally incapable of even stringing a simple sentence together. If abroad and this happens, it could be one of two things:
1. Document falsification
2. Since doing the test and getting what may have been a legitimate score, the candidate has probably not done any further English study to maintain that level of competency! And often it can take 2-6 months from time of exam until candidates present themselves at a foreign institution! We've all seen in China how, after a break of only a couple/few weeks because of holidays, most students will return to classes uable to undertsand even simple exchanges! Multiply this by a factor of - choose your length of time! - and you come to uderstand why students' English is not so good.
Chinese students 'compartmentalise' their studies, more so than western students, and after achieving a favourable result, they will stop and move on to something else. How many students have you spoken to who say they are going to do a/the IELTS test in a few months, but won't start 'study' for it until about a month before? These students probably go to one of the big-two scram schools which will reinforce their notions of language acquisition and give them all the ... tricks to get a good result?
Bribes? Nah, forget it, look elsewhere! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
