Job Discussion Forums

[Sherri]

In the discussion on the magic of the foreign teacher, the topic of giving advice to students to how to improve their English came up. What kind of advice do you give? I mean, especially to students who want to improve their speaking and listening, outside of class without the help of a teacher. I'll have to add my own advice later as I have a hundry baby here waiting for my attention.

[Glenski]

Learning to speak English (or throwing a football, becoming a carpenter, learning to type, memorizing the multiplication tables, etc.) requires quite simplistic advice. Study and use it as often as possible.

Outside the classroom, make the time to study.
1. Read anything in English. Books, newspapers, Internet sites, cereal boxes, candy bars, billboards, bumper stickers, comics, etc. Do this on the way home or to work, at home, on break, etc.

2. Listen to anything in English. Recorded tapes, news, songs, other people, etc. This means on the train ride home, in your car, during lunch break, etc.

3. Watch educational programs. Record them if you have to, and watch them later at your leisure, even if it means 10-15 minutes a day when you are getting ready for work in the morning.

4. Watch anything in English. Movies (with or without subtitles), CNN news, sitcoms, etc.

My Japanese brother-in-law has asked this question, and these are the answers. The more you make the time to practice, the better your skills are. So many people either want to run before they can crawl, or figure there is a magic solution to learning instantly. You can't, and there isn't.

One other point to make is also very simple. Speak. Don't worry about making mistakes, just speak. If you have people who will correct things a little at a time, all the better. Just say something instead of standing silent while you waste time formulating a grammatically perfect sentence.

[shmooj]

I disagree Glenski. I don't think it is simple. It sounds it, but really it isn't.

First of all you need motivation. Secondly, you need to learn a whole range of skills about langauge learning itself when you are not in an immersion situation. I won't go into them all here but they fall under headings such as learning strategies.

As for your advice about speaking, again, I beg to differ. What you suggest may work in Japan most of the time where students are more likely to be backward in coming forward. But I have had learners who need to learn to monitor what they say more, slow down and sometimes just plain shut up. They need to learn how to do this to improve their English.

I feel we have to be very honest with students. The words "simple" and "learning English" should not be used in the same sentence IMHO.

[dduck]

[dduck]

[Roger]

My advice to the standard Chinese student of English would be:
- Go out of your inured ways, forget about being a Chinese, be yourself
with a mission and a need and do whatever you need to do in order to
achieve your goals; don't depend on other people, depend on your
own resources and yourself; immerse yourself in that medium called
"English" in a total way, and since there are no English speakers
surrounding you, learn about the world at large through English-language
literature, wean yourself off Chinese (you don't need to further perfect
your Chinese reading skills at this moment, do you?); the more you
read in English the better you adapt to the norms of the English
speakers. It will greatly improve your English, i.e. accuracy of ex-
pression, vocabulary and develop your imagination; if you are into
movies, there are now a multitude of English-language TV channels.
And: Tape-record your own pronunciation while you read aloud -
the best way to refine your accent and pronunciation! Learn to
listen, to think, and lastly, to speak in the target tongue!

[once again]

I don't think that Glenski ever suggested that learing English was simple..he suggested that the advice was simplistic..study it as much as you can..that, IMHO, would also include studying learning stragegies. I also often get asked the same question, and I think I give the same answers as Glenski. For my perspective, as an adult, I have been in Hong Kong for a number of years now, and basically my Cantonese is rubbish. Why? I have a Chinese wife, how can it be so bad? Well basically I don't make the effort to learn, listen and study it or speak it. I rely on picking it up. That is obviously, in my case not working. I need a new learning strategy. I should be more motivated. If I were more motivated I would follow the advice of Roger and Glenski. Listen more, study more and practice more. My wife came to Hong Kong with no ability in English, but worked hard and practiced and now is fluent in speaking. I vow every year to learn to speak cantonese well, and every year I do not make the effort..not a good example to my students..but at least I appreciate the real reason for any lack of progress they make!!

[Freaky Deaky]

I've been asked this tons of times. 'How do I improve my spoken English?'

I always say 'Put yourself in an English speaking environment'.

'But I don't know any foreigners'

My advice get a weekend job in a bar, a restaurant, a coffee shop where all the foreigners go.

I know a Shanghainese bloke who learnt English this way. Got a job in a bar which took some getting used to for him as he's a fairly quiet sort of bloke, but his English improved in a huge way over a year.


That's what I might do - open a bar manned by English speakers and just get Chinese to turn up and practice. Might even make a few bob.

[johnslat]

Part of the problem, perhaps, is that so many students are looking for a "short-cut", some kind of magic pill they can take that will make learning the language so much easier. How many times have I had students come and ask me, "What can I do to learn how to speak /read / write / listen to English better?". And when I've given them advice very similar to what Glenski and Roger posted here, they've seemed disappointed and dissatisfied: What, no easier way? Reminds me of the old joke about the tourist in N.Y. City who stopped a local on the street and asked how to get to Carnegie Hall. The response?
"Practice, practice, practice".
Regards.
John

[scot47]

When learners realise that thousands of hours are required to reach competence in a foreign language, they often give up. That is certainly what happens in Saudi. They often reach a level of basic communicative competence and stop.

You know
"I go yesterday Corniche"
"I go tomorrow Corniche"

[Sherri]

Thanks for your great responses. Finally have a moment to myself.

Here in Tokyo, it is easy to access English, it's on TV, radio, video, DVD, internet and newspapers in English are sold at almost every station. Access is not really a problem. In my most recent teaching situation, the students mainly work at foreign capital companies, so they usually work alongside non-Japanese people or at least communicate in English in some form (email, telephone) everyday. They are already pretty good at English, but they still ask the question and it is usually specifically about listening and speaking.

I've done special seminars on the topic of self study and worked on it in my classes. It almost always starts by me asking the students to talk about what they already do and how it works for them. It is important to get them to recognize their own individual learning styles and their goals.

Having established this some techniques I like are:

--recording a news program and concentrate on a 3 or 4 minute news story. Follow the format that we use in class, listen once for gist, write up who, what, where, why type qs, listen again to answer them. Follow up with a 3rd listening to take notes in outline style. Then record self giving 1 minute summary, transcribe and anaylse.

--keep a self-study journal, use it to write down the kind of study done, the objective of the study, new vocab, expressions whatever fits in with their learning style.

I think it is very important for the students to keep things in perspective and not try to take on too much. Some students think they should be reading Time and Newsweek from cover to cover and learning (and remembering) 50 new words a week. They are so shocked when I say it is all right to read Cosmo or People magazine and remember and know how to use one new phrase a week.
That's enough for now, time to ice some gingerbread cookies!

[leeroy]

To continue (I think) from a vein in John Slat's post...

When I was 16, I had a friend who was very good at the guitar. After listening to a song, give him two minutes and he could recreate it perfectly - sometimes better than the original. When he played, conversation stopped - he really was that good.

"I want to play the guitar like that!" Thought I. So, I bought a guitar, and discovered that

1) It hurts.

Pushing down on metal strings for hours can make the tips of your fingers very sore at first. It wasn't "fun" in the literal sense of the word, and not much music was being created in the initial "pluck-pluck-ploink-tap" stages. This lasted several months. Through a kind of grim perseverence, though, I battled on - noting and relishing the moments when when I did correctly and smoothly change from a C to an A minor.

2) You have to put the work in.

Like it or not, you have to remember chords and scales. Well, not everyone, but most would agree that it's necessary. Stretching your fingers and remembering where they go in a heartbeat isn't easy. Sometimes it's not fun - but you have to recognise that this is part of the bigger goal - competence in playing the guitar.

3) You have to 'feel it'.

It's no use just knowing the timing and order of the chords/notes. You have to have the song in your head - you have to hear it playing, according to your own internal juke-box. The secret is trying to play along to the song in your head, rather than treating the piece of music as some kind of external singularity that does not affect you. Some bits of songs are "sad", sometimes a chord works as a "friend" to others, sometimes a sliding note will act as a "bridge" to the next part of the song. You should recognise and feel the characteristics and functions of each chord and note that make-up the song.

By doing this, you find that you automatically worry less about the timing/order - it comes naturally.

4) You have to be self-critical.

Improvements come when you want to become better at something. But this only comes from recognising your strengths and weaknesses and making realistic targets based on these. You have to listen to yourself.

5) You have to enjoy it.

That speaks for itself, doesn't it?

(Other friends also bought guitars, but within a few months they were relegated to attics, never to be played again. I have a feeling they weren't observing the above "rules" )

I think the analogies between "playing the guitar" and "speaking a foreign language" are obvious enough for me to not have to explicitly state them, right? (I might just be talking rubbish though...)

[Frater]

I once had an student who learnt English by becoming an English teacher. He said that in this way he progressed from an Elementary to an Advanced level in about 2 years.

The students were absolute beginner kids in his home town. He did it to put himself through college.

He was an excellent student, by the way, and I suspect he would have been a good teacher (though here I may be flame-baiting...)

So if you want to learn something, try teaching it.

[sojourner]

Recently,someone was telling me that a few months ago on Shanghai TV (channel 4?) there was an interview with some local female personality who,in reply to a question regarding here excellent command of English,remarked that it was virtually due to the fact that she had watched - and listened ! - the 1960s movie,"The Sound of Music",about 100 times !

Did anyone see this particular interview ? I'm wondering what the TV personality in question actually learnt from the aforementioned movie ? Surely,she had learnt some English grammar and vocabulary BEFORE watching that movie.Otherwise,how would she have known what the characters were saying ? However,I suppose,after watching the movie a number of times, the personality would have soon been able to associate certain phrases with certain actions.

I feel that what the movie may have done mostly for that personality was by helping her to develop a proper accent - through CONSTANT exposure to Julie Andrew's dialogue with Christopher Plummer !

Regards,

Peter

[johnslat]

Dear sojourner,
I think I recall hearing about that. Personally, watching "The Sound of Music" ONE time (never mind 100) would only drive me bonkers.
Regards,
John