Job Discussion Forums

[HunanForeignGuy]

First, I have not posted in a very long time.

Second, the main reason for this is the endless guard-dog attacks by one of the posters in this friend whose acrimonious comments were so correctly noted by another poster.

Third, I personally in the four years that I have been in China have had nothing but the very best professional experiences with New Times and with the services that they have rendered for me at my behest and/or on my behalf.

Fourth, I do concur that one drop of water does not an ocean make, so to speak, but nonetheless, I have dealt with them repeatedly over a period of time and have come nowhere close to the experiences that have filled this thread.

Fifth, New Times regularly reads these threads and I am sure that if there were any truth in the allegations, and they are not more than hearsay, because the true identity of the purported victim has not been ascertained and to pass along information gleaned on an airplane ride as absolutely truthful and accurate is a perfect example of what the Russians call : "adna baba skazala".

TW might wish to ponder in the future the intelligence of posting such unverifiable information and after having frosted it with an aura of absolute truth as it does damage to all concerned. Additionally, libel and slander laws in the PRC work remarkably well and there was a recent incident here in the city where I work in China wherein a self-anointed foreign teacher and saviour-of-the-world truly debased a Chinese colleague at a staff meeting of working professionals. The Chinese colleague responded with unexpected fury, filed a complaint with the People's Court, the complaint was received, the self-anointed foreign teacher wouldn't back down, and he was monetarily, at least for China, rather punished by the court for his comments.

When posting these kind of stories, which is just what they are until they are completed vetted, one needs to err on the side of discretion and not slander.

And that includes all the comments of the one poster-in-question whose sole job on this Board appears to denigrate all and any and whose appearance in this thread was so noted above.

[vikuk]

[SnoopBot]

Sometimes it is hard to stay objective when things like this occur to fellow FT's and when a complaint is leveled against a Chinese agent in a recruiting agency.

All of us either have been shafted or know someone shafted in this industry.

When we hear about an issue of possible sexual harassment, the anger is a little higher than the typical breach of contract issues.

These are sensitive issues and often heated ones.

Who knows the real story, there are always two sides of the story to these things.

I am amazed though at the level of support other FT's have towards New Times and feel this incident (if true) was an exception to the norm.

I am willing to give NT the benefit of the doubt in this matter.

However, one point I would like to make:

I am not sure who the Danish girl is (mentioned above) I also do not know what her qualifications are and English ability level is.

I do know for those of you that are not born to a Chinese government listing of Native Speaking Countries, must be very careful when taking teaching jobs in China. The same thing goes for those without a degree.

The law as we know, can be bent depending on guanxi and distance from Beijing, but it states Native Speaker and a degree for Z visa.

Those of you that still want to come to China for volunteer work, normal work must be very careful having the Chinese law on your side. If you are not, you have the possiblity of being cheated or taken advantage of.

You could end up with a lousy contract, bad working conditions or in a situation where some type of harrassment can happen.

Please do your research before you come to China and insure you have enough money if an emergency does happen.

If bad situation does happen you can get out very quickly and go back home/ another place.

Don't let others have power or control over you.

[jwbhomer]

[clark.w.griswald]

There seems to be no doubt that something happened between the Danish girl and Mr Dou. I am confident that she did not make up the incident. But I do question whether that incident is more than an isolated abhorration on Mr Dou's behalf. I am sure that Mr. Dou is not proud of it, but I also don't think that he should be stoned for it either. If he is a repeat offender who takes advantage of his female staff well I will certainly join the warnings against him, but at this stage it seems to me to be a case of a guy who made a bad judgement. That is certainly reason enough not to enter a bathhouse or hotel room with him alone, but I am not so sure that it is reason enough not to deal with a company that has so many proponents.

NT is a company that many have spoken out about positively, but few have spoken out about negatively. This is not just in this thread but over the years and on the internet in general.

I am a supporter of NT but my concerns with NT are as follows:

1. They clearly make placements of non-native English speakers - perhaps those who have worked for NT can explain whether these placements are legal placements, and if not, whether the applicants are explained this up front.

If NT are promising legal placements and then not coming through on the documentation then I for one would stop including them on a list of recommended recruiters.

2. I understand how difficult it must be to be ensure that placement schools are 100% on the up, but what steps do you have in place to 'verify' schools before you make placements? Just as individual teachers should check out schools to ensure that placements will be legal, a recruiter should also do this.

I note that NT blacklists schools with which you have a bad experience which is one step to ensuring solid placements, but what do you do before the placement?

I have been accused by someone of taking the high moral ground here but I question whether this is true. I have no problem with individual teachers choosing to work illegally in China, nor do I have a problem with a recruiter helping those teachers to find illegal placements in China provided that both parties are clear with each other about the legality of the placements. So does NT make the legality and illegality of specific placements clear to applicants BEFORE they accept the placement?

[evaforsure]

[vikuk]

I do not know Mr. Dou - I have no experience of NT � but the poster who seems to know the most about this person, company and indeed the incident, writes �

[eslstudies]

[SSS86]

Okay� I am the person who all this happened to. I can confirm that the story is true! BUT it is not the whole story. The story that I posted originaly (which was posted here by tw) was in response to a false story that I saw on a blog. I posted it to help (and defend) a friend, and I had asked the guy to remove it again, as I did not want it to end up here on Dave's�

So, why dos Bou Bou want MY story out? Why is �tw� posting it? Who is �tw�?

I would have preferred to have posted the story myself - instead of having to read it from a person I don't know.

Stine

[tw]

[jwbhomer]

All this reminds me of the question they ask you when you check in at some airports: "Did you pack this luggage yourself?" It appears we have not just a second-hand, but a third-hand story. Perhaps TW and other should be more careful about telling stories that happened to "a friend of a friend" ... or of someone with whom they struck up a conversation on a plane. First-hand information is always the best information.

[therock]

When I first this thread I was waiting and knew it would eventually happen that "nolefan" would come on here and defend New Times. Do a search of New Times posts, generally they are negative.........but the funny thing almost every negative story about New Times, nolefan has defended them. They most be paying him.

On another note, with all the negative stories floating around, why are people still using New Times!!!! Better yet why are people using recruitment agencies full stop. Sure there are some reputable agencies out there, but if you can't find a job in China on your own then there must be something wrong with you. Also the poor poster why did you volunteer in China!!!! Don't believe all this crap about coming to experience China and helping out for some poor school. Mr. Dou would get paid for your teaching and then gives you nothing in return............no wonder why English Teaching positions are poorly paid.

[Brian Caulfield]

And what was TW talking to this young nymph in the first place . He is a married man and should not have spent so much time with this young girl chatting her up . The whole thing is shameful .

[tw]

[Brian Caulfield]

Gotcha TW