Job Discussion Forums

[Guy Courchesne]

A colleague of mine recently attended a regular meeting of a national association of English language schools and mentioned that one of the major topics of discussion/concern was a marked drop in student enrollment. All the big players have been seeing the same thing...Berlitz, Harmon Hall, Interlingua, as well as the smaller independent institutes.

No one arrived at a conclusion.

Got me wondering if any of you out there in such chains (ESL schools only) have seen the same thing?

Trying to come up with reasons why...I'm thinking perhaps that as Mexicans have seen a general rise in their family incomes over the last several years, more kids are moving from public to private education, where English instruction is generally better? Or is it the reverse, where Mexican families are seeing lower incomes and therefore enrolling less into ESL institutes?

Perhaps it's a quality issue in the ESL institutes, or perception of quality having dropped?

I can't believe that there's been a widespread drop in the necessity of English proficiency. What could it be?

How about those of you that went to Mextesol? Any trends discussed there?

[MELEE]

Well, I didn't go to any sessions on the business of English teaching. We did talk about trends. The biggest one--keep in mind I choose sessions that related to my work--was the move for more and more universities to have English requirements for graduation for ALL majors, and to raise those requirements every year or so. People were also talking about the new TOEFL iBT and having that test required for all non-native English teachers (I'm a native, and I think if they have to take it, I should have to take it too). Aparently you can now buy the test for use in your school for this purpose and someplaces are making the teachers take it every six months! Another trend was moving away back to ESP, and starting ESP at lower and lower levels. Another was the move away from "self-access", turns out that's a great idea that doesn't work-and changing existing self access centers into requried guided individual study centers and the like.

As for your questions Guy, I think English teaching in the public schools is getting better--don't forget that in the equation. Also more universities require English and provide classes (though some, like UNAM require English but don't provide free classes for their students--so the students must seek out classes). And I think more and more students are going on to university. So students are getting their English elsewhere and not going to the chains.

I also hope that students have come to realize that the outragesous claims like "Fluent in a year", are bogus and have become disenchanted with the gimicks.

[dixie]

My thought is that perhaps, as was mentioned, more kids are receiving English language learning earlier in their life (mostly elementary school) and thus are more profecient when it comes time to entire the "real world". I would imagine that with the way business works here, parents and even the kids themselves (some of the older ones) recognize the importance of knowing English and thus begin learning it earlier (rather than later, when they are part of the working world and are "forceed" to learn English with the idea - learn it or leave us).

I think the thing that willl "save" English language schools though (at least for a long while yet) is that not every parent can afford to send their child to a private bilingual school and that the public school only goes so far in their English teaching. Thus, once these kids are older, they will enroll in the language schools, hoping to improve their job prospects and ladder climbing opportunities. Combined with that I cannot imagine a foreign native speaker nor a well educated English speaking Mexican would work for the public system (due to many factors). Thus, creating a public bilingual system (at least at par with the "decent" private schools) is difficult to accomplish.

Until all Mexicans are able to afford private bilingual schools or the public ecducation system is taken and lifted high from it�s current position, I think language schools will survive.

Speaking of public education, I heard someone argue that Mexico purposely keeps the system in need, so that it can maintain the "haves" and "have nots". Anyone know why there is such a poor public system here (regardless of that being valid or not)? Being from Canada, where you only really go to private school to "make connections" for later in life, I have a hard time understanding why public education systems in any country can suffer so intensly (not that Canada is perfect...but certainly better than here).

[notamiss]

[TheLongWayHome]

[hlamb]

I work for an independent language school and we routinely get students who come to us from the big chain schools complaining that they wasted their money for two years and didn't learn much. They are often in the advanced classes at those schools and we place them in our beginner classes. We have high expectations and routinely fail students who don't meet the grade. Consequently we do have some drop-outs but the ones who do graduate speak very well. So I think the demand is still there but people are finding different ways of achieving their goals.

[TheLongWayHome]

[Guy Courchesne]

[thelmadatter]

MELEE... I dont remember anything at the MexTESOL saying there is a trend away from self access centers. In fact, Connie Johnson at UDLA - Puebla invited me to come see their center which is older and better developed than ours here, which is new.

Ive gotten a lot of flak over my enthusiasm for SALCs and I agree that establishing and making one truly work is fraught with perils... meaning that you really need to do much more than put a bunch of materials/computers in a room and expect people to use them efficiently. If you got a source for your claim, I would really like to read it.

MexTESOL has a recent journal/special edition out dedicated to the development of professionalism in EFL in Mexico (Vol 31 No2 I think... I dont know for sure because I lent it to another teacher). I havent read all of it but what I have picked up so far is that, research in applied linguistics here is in its infancy but growing and that systematic institutional change is really hard to accomplish (at least in Mexican public unis as this is what the paper studied) because unless there is someone who is ABSOLUTELY in charge, leaving little to no say for anyone else, real change is resisted. Can report more after my friend gives me back my copy.

[MELEE]

That was a good issue, I read it too then passed it on.

I was at a session on Sunday morning done by two teachers from the Universidad Latina de America, campus Morelia. There were other teachers there from ITESM (can't remember which campus), Universidad Panamericana, Universidad Anahuaca, and of course me, and we all were in the same situation as the presenters. We all had well equiped self access centers that sit empty 90% (or more) of the time. Because true "self-access" means the student goes when they want, IF they want. Turns out they don't want. Even the British Council who was putting loads of money into self access ten years ago has turned away from this idea, not just in Mexico, but around the world.
It's not that these labs and computer, books, etc. are not good learning tools. They are great. But we've found that we have to REQUIRE that the student go. And give them more guidence in what to do once they are there--hence, not SELF-ACCESS, but mandatory guided homework centers. I also know that the Universidad Veracruzana has had mandatory "self access" for a number of years.

[thelmadatter]

I agree that "true" self access is at best problematic and difficult to implement. You cant just put a bunch of stuff into a room and expect student to figure out what to do with it. Its just not realistic to NOT require students to use it.

I call what we do "weak" self-access. Students are given projects/assignments to do (or a choice of assignments/projects) which require them to use center materials. Assignments range from reading a book, to watch TV shows/movies, to working on a software program. The teacher sets up the evaluation, which in my case is usually some kind of table and short essay. The students choose materials (to some extent) and how when to go to the center. (Tho I require mine to go 3x a week for listening assignments).

So far, this seems to allow for flexibility on the part of the students and lets our lab be used to about 60%-70% capacity. How far the lab develops toward the "strong" version of self-access will depend on what is acceptable to both students and faculty. Im hoping to devise a stronger autonomous learning kind of course to do with the teachers here who need to improve their level of English (non-English teachers, of course). Im also going over to UDLA-Puebla to see their self-access center to see what I can learn.

[thelmadatter]

Thought about these after I posted yesterday....

I would like to try to contact the people you mentioned MELEE... its good to see what doesnt go so well as well as that which does.

Secondly... I have no love for the British Council... at least not here in Mexico. They screwed my school over royally with the ICELT course they supposedly "taught" to my department last year. I left after the 5th session when one of the instructors literally screamed NO at a student who was in the middle of a presentation, then spent 5 minutes telling us why she was wrong as the poor woman stood there, deer in the headlights. (I WISH I was making this up) There were incidents that ticked me off before that but that just went so beyond the pale that I was willing to risk my job but walking out. Now 7 months after the end of that course, we still dont have grades or certificates AND now this same instructor is calling some of the poor people who could not risk their jobs, saying they did not turn in x,y or z assignment when they did, but cant prove that they did. Theres gonna be a meeting between our school and the BC in DF but I dont anything will come of it but all the teacher who were there getting a certificate whether they deserve one or not (or maybe they all deserve one for putting up with that). Ill laugh really really hard, if one come in my name! Anyone want to take bets on it?

So whatever they say about self access.... take with a HUGE grain of salt.

[PlayadelSoul]

We have not seen evidence of that trend. In fact, we have shown a 25% in business, this year. This follows a 2006 with similar results.

The idea that students are treated as sheep is offensive. We have a maximum of 15 students per class. I would be willing to put up my students against any of yours, in regards to level.

[Guy Courchesne]

[TheLongWayHome]