Job Discussion Forums

[KevinT123]

A courgette is a green vegetable served in many restaurants in China. It is also very common in Western society. The Chinese call it xihulu 西葫芦 and all of my students say they have eaten it at some time.

[ispeakgoodenglish]

It's also known by its other name "Zucchini". They are great when sliced and used in a stir fry.

[KevinT123]

Thanks ispeakgoodenglish! I never knew that but it sounds more difficult to learn than courgette. As for previous comments, lettuce 生菜 is hugely popular in these parts and maybe most of China, almost every Chinese person has eaten 猪排 zhupai which I think can only be correctly translated as spare ribs and taking a rickshaw 人力车 ride in tourist locations in China is still a pleasure pursuit for many western tourists. Many Beijing people, including my teachers at Tsinghua University in the summer, know it has a rickshaw (as do most western people) so why not call it that?

[AussieGuyInChina]

Strange days indeed! Kev7161 said that he had to agree with me on hewlettpac's recent thread, and I have to agree with Kev on this thread. I also agree with Sheeba. Vocabulary should be 'taught' within lexical syllabi.

I have a list of the 10,000 most frequently used English words and 'rickshaw' is not included.

As for courgette v zucchini, an exact phrase Google search for courgette resulted in 2,060,000 hits: zucchini - 8,910,000.

[KevinT123]

In which case I have to stand corrected and accept that I have been wrong to expect my major students to know such vocabulary.

I am not surprised that rickshaw is not in the 10,000 most used words in the English language because, as far as I am aware, the thing is only really used in China and the word is worthless unless you either visit China or you happen to be Chinese.

If I was a language major from any country, I would be as keen as hell to know how to translate items that are an integral part of my own culture into the language that I was learning. But that is perhaps just me. I have a curious mind and enjoy learning the Chinese word for things that I see and do around me. I bet that I could use most of the words that I have taught (if not all of them) to produce a very interesting and educational paper related to Chinese culture. I could certainly use them to compile an essay or article.

Compared with things like the Chinese word for bone marrow or hypochondria which are things that I was taught when learning Advanced Chinese, I think rickshaw is a relatively common word in the vocabulary and especially in China.

It actually makes me feel even prouder that some of my non English majors now know vocabulary related to their own culture and eating practices that are not known by many language students at other Chinese universities. In which case, I have certainly taught them something different in a competitive society.

I bet a certain percentage of them even learn and use this vocabulary in their future careers. Thank you everyone for making me see the error of my ways!

[jwbhomer]

Rickshaws are still in use in many parts of south Asia.
I've eaten courgettes in the UK and zucchini in the USA.

To speak to the point, yes, the standard is about what you should expect of English majors. Yes, they ARE better than science majors, but if you start from a zero base, anything is an improvement.

I also agree with those who say that it's a waste of time teaching vocabulary. I always tried to work a couple of new words into every lesson, but I never tested my students on vocabulary. That is too Chinese! They measure progress in learning their own language by counting the number of words/characters they know. I always told them there's no point in knowing a lot of words unless you know their meanings and how to use them.

I also said (as Nation suggests) that most people can get along well enough with a vocabulary of about 5000 words. The best way of acquiring a bigger vocabulary? Read, read and read some more! That used to dismay my students. Even the English majors -- most of them -- steadfastly refused to read anything outside of class.

[johnchina]

post

[sheeba]

Homer. I'm testing students for my Masters reserach-not so much because I think that this determines the level of the student. Many students with smaller vocabularies clearly can converse better in the spoken context.

There is evidence that 2000 words will allow a student to understand 99 percent of everyday language(from Australia). therefore it seems sensible that we work with what we have acquired. I would say most students have 2000 words(ones I 've met at Uni anyway) and the job at hand is getting them to pronounce these words and use appropriate collocations. Collocations are one of the biggest problem areas IMHO.

Have you ever wondered how difficult it must be for a student to look in his elecctronic dictionary for a translation to be faced with 4 or 5 different words and no example sentences. The fact that Chinese uses verbs and adverbs to precisely pin down the meaning of English words really does not help the students to find appropriate words. Investigate whether their electronic devices allow input of Chinese adverbs and verbs.

Moving forward I would suggest to students and promote 'noticing' as a strategy that they can use. Rather than invent their collocations incorrectly they should take note of what they hear from natural native speech. Kind of puts the Native approach to the forefront. Communication language learning certainly has its flaws.Keeping collocation grids is a good idea. I would recommend Nation as a good book to give you some ideas at least.

[malu]

I'd also recommend banning chinglish translators during lessons - at least for long enough to show that it is possible to communicate without them.

Those gadgets are the bane of my life. Instead of trying to understand what something means from context the students will gleefully seek the wrong answer via their little machines. They will then try to convince you that YOUR answer is wrong and the machine is right.

Hello John!

Hello Bob!

Are you [a hole in the ground where we get water]?

Yes, thanks. I'm [a financial penalty].

Do you [to feel sexually attracted to] lunch in the [water storage bottle]?

[Brian Caulfield]

I notice this also. Students know low frequency words but don't understand the meanings of high frequency words . It has a lot to do with the books being put out by Beijing . I find words like courgette in them and have to look them up in my dictionary . This is a problem everywhere, the non native English teacher teaches to impress their students with their knowledge of English. They confuse their students and destroy their confidence. What I noticed when working in middle and high schools here was the test were too difficult for the students . If they average 15 % on a test what can the teacher learn. There are many lists of high frequencey words. I like one that has about a thousand words. In South Korea I would hold them responsible for learning them but here I am too lazy to mark 500 exams that have mostly been cheated on.

[flutterbayou]

It's a summer squash (and I had to look it up ).

Let's not attack and bicker over ways to express our ideas with language. Another truth brought to light is that actors would never say 'live' theater, but 'legitimate' stage. And we all make typos from time to time, so let's get over what the OP wrote. And I say eggplant and you say abourgine. As our Chinese friends would say, "It doesn't matter."

Let's agree that children in China are motivated to acquire English because the educational system has made the language a political priority. Students learning English are learning from teachers who, themselves, were taught by tape and other Chinese native speakers. It's hard to learn any language without cultural immersion.

Not much is perfect but people like me stay here year after year.

I do take a bit of exception to the comments made about the quality of English majors. Three year students sometimes have low college entrance scores, but English majors at a number of quality schools such as Jilin University yield fine graduates who go on to post graduate studies in linguistics. Some of my former students do very well, thank you.

And let's not blame the OP for using the term 'rickshaw'. When I first used Family Album USA, most of my graduate students thought all Americans eat ice cream after every meal.

And now I am leaving to buy myself a ripe courgette.

[Anda]

Courgette is the British, and particularly the New Zealand name for zucchinis. People in the UK may refer to courgettes as vegetable marrows. Zucchinis come in many shapes, and a few different colors. People are likely most familiar with courgettes that are long green oblongs, resembling a cucumber. Actually you can find round shapes, and yellow zucchini in many stores. Zucchini is perhaps the best known and most popular of the summer squashes.

Though vegetable marrows technically belong in the fruit family, they are almost invariably considered vegetables. They may be steamed, fried, grated into pasta sauce, or blanched and served as part of a vegetable plate. They�re also sliced into stews and soups, and have a mild taste. On a few occasions, courgettes are treated as a dessert and used in the delicious, sweet and spicy zucchini bread.

Zucchini grows on vines, and the beautiful blossoms they grow from are edible and favored by many. Squash blossoms from summer squash may be steamed, or served stuffed and fried with courgettes. Many people prefer to buy courgettes when they are still quite small and are attached to the blossom. Younger zucchinis do tend to be sweeter, and when they are still attached to their flowers they are often freshest. If you can�t find them in your local grocery store, the best source for fresh small zucchinis and their blossoms are at local farmers markets, where they are usually available in late May through the summer in the US.

If you have a sunny spot in your garden you can try your hand at growing zucchini, usually one of the easiest vegetables to grow and fairly pest resistant. You do need to plant two plants since the squash depends upon cross-pollination by honeybees in order to fruit. A single plant can grow an impressive amount of zucchinis, which means you can not only feed your family, but keep some of your neighbors supplied with courgettes too. Generally, you should plan to pick them within a day or two of use, which often means you�ll end up with a few very large zucchinis toward the end of the season.

Larger courgettes are often fantastic served in other foods, where a slightly stronger flavor is disguised. They are terrific in pasta sauce or in zucchini breads or muffins. Additionally you can make zucchini pancakes that are savory, or use zucchini in lasagna. Since zucchini, even when it is large, doesn�t have tremendous flavor, it�s easy to grate it into a number of foods where those who abstain from vegetables, such as some children, won�t notice it. A hamburger patty or meatloaf can have a bit of grated courgette with a child who hates green things usually none the wiser.

Courgettes are a good source of vitamin A, and low in calories. They contain a healthy supply of manganese, folate, and potassium. They�re often a great food if you�re dieting, since manganese is known for its ability to speed up the metabolism.

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-courgettes.htm

[malu]

[arioch36]

If you really wanna drill this vocab into them, I suggest a cumulative vocabulary quiz at the beginning of every class.

Thank you!

I did vocab quizzes manking the students use the word in a sentence, worked wonders. Only tested about evbery two weeks, randomly, to save work for myself.

Never knew what cougette or aubergine (eggplant, not sure of sp.) was until I came to China and talked with Brits.

If you have ever traveled to zoos or parks, or noticed english signs on campus, they pick the "english" biggest word possible when they officially "translate"euridite I have seen more often in one year in China then in a lifetime in America, but at least I knew that one.

English majors are a crapshoot. I think
1) it matters most who their teachers were the first year, as freshmen, how quickly they got in or out of good study habits
2) the environment/expectations of the school. Many schools really don't notice english majors, whose departments get a smaller percent of support. I knew the students at one school before they went to the school. Three years later I found their oral english and writing skills, especially their vocabulary was worse. Oral english 55 students, no conversation practice. On the other hand, the college I am at know, I had a class same students 6 hours a week, their Chinese teacher was good...one semester, drastic improvement. Amazing.
3) Some students are in the english major because they think it will be the easiest, the least amount of studying. And Chinese schools do not require stuents to improve

I have found that my non-english majors often respond better then english majors, depending on who their previous teachers were.

Getting students to incorporate new vocabualry in oral english is a challenge, made easier if they have a decent textbook that has decent new vocabualry word to learn each week

Good luck

[latefordinner]

arioch: