Job Discussion Forums

[LaurenceR]

Ive read alot of threads and stories about people getting scammed and it seems to me that one way around is to not let the school put you in a position where they have any power over you beyond the job itself. Perks such as airport pickup, pre arranged housing, letting them take care of the visa issues gives them alot of areas where they can screw you over, take you to towns you didnt intend to go to, give you dodgy housing, have security guards follow your every move, confiscate your passport and on it goes.

Just recently ive started to have some correspondance with Beijing schools (over the net...im still in Sydney) and if any of them reach the phase where we start negotiating the terms Im considering insisting upon the following:

1) No pre arranged accomodation. They can factor this into my salary. I want to arrive in Beijing and find an appartment for myself. If I have an apartment where I feel comfortable and safe, some sanctuary, then any problem I encounter will seem so much more managable.

2) They can send me a letter of invitation or whatever I need for the visa, before I leave Sydney which I will then take to the Chinese consulate and attempt to arrange the Z visa myself (is this possible?). Theres no way im giving anyone passport in China unless I really trust them, and the consulate can also verify that its a legally registered school.

3) Im also gonna be pretty anal about the contract re holiday pay, sick days blah blah blah, I dont mind not having these things but its gotta be very transparent that this is the case from the start.

Basically I want to stress that Ill do a good job (whether its actual teaching or singing and dancing) and wont do a runner, but they will in no way own me. Its simple, I do a job and they pay me...and not paying me will be the only way they can possibly screw me over. If it happens its still far less stressful than finding myself in a high security school in the middle of nowhere with no phones or internet.

Are these reasonable things to ask of a legitimate school? Is it safe to assume that if making these requests results in them all of a sudden being disinterested in hiring me then they did have something dodgy up their sleave?

[ispeakgoodenglish]

[LaurenceR]

wow really? Ive been thinking that the Olympics makes it more competitive but that job supply is still gonna exceed job demand, just not by quite so much. So most appartments supplied are reasonable? Its just that I cant really know until I get there can I?

[eslstudies]

I'm not sure to what extent embassies can vouch for a school's credentials. It's hardly their job.
Getting your Z visa granted in your home country pretty much guarantees the legitimacy of the school, however. I'd be doing that.
As for your passport, well if you want to attach yourself to it and sit in the local PSB for 3 or 4 days while your residence permit is processed, that's your choice. On the housing issue, if it's a university and they've got on-campus housing available for FTs, they're hardly likely to pay you to find your own. On the other hand, a language school will pay an allowance and expect you to arrange your own, though they'll quite likely assist.
I'm assuming your Chinese is good enough to do this on your own without getting gouged.

All up, while I can appreciatw your sentiments, you are likely to lose the interest of a number of schools who will regard you as too fussy and too much trouble.

[LaurenceR]

Ok so the visa thing im gonna lock that in as a must do (get Z-visa before leaving). Didnt even think about the PSB residency permit. But I dont mind giving my passport to a government agency.

And as for the accomodation...I guess I need to start thinking about ways of reducing the risk of getting dumped in a complete shithole, as opposed to eliminating it all together. So if theres other FT's who have lived in the same block in the past or still do I could get their oppinion on the accomodation right? Ive been guessing that when I get put in touch with other FT's by the school (which is something I gather you must do), if I speak to someone on the phone who is a native English speaker then I can trust them.

I also have a mate in Beijing, I could trouble him to pop round and take a look at the flat. And ive read that you should ask for whatever photos of the flat they send you to be incorporated into the contract.

Am I still being to fussy? Is Beijing 2008 really gonna be a case of beggars cant be choosers? There must be some measures I should take to reduce the chance of getting screwed.

PS. I realise this forum shows a disproportionately large number of FT's getting fucked over. Its not too likely to happen but what a difference it could make just reducing the chances even further.

[Anda]

There are 40,000 roughly FT here and only a limited number post on Dave's. Most jobs will pass you by especially decent places that can pick and chose, I know this from watching and helping others. The bad places will however lie to you and do everything in their power to get you as they are the ones who have trouble finding workers. There are plenty of tame foreign teachers, especially those on the way out that just want their last pay packet whole so to speak.


Don't go for a government job as they are always wanting your passport for one thing and another, but they are pretty safe to work for most of the time.

Good flats are usually out in the sticks if they are cheap. So you might be better off cleaning up a bit of a dump close in that is within your housing allowance.

Perks such as airport pickup are often done to save the person hiring you the trouble of finding a lost newbe.

Also you haven't stated what type of place you want to work for or what paperwork you have. Most over here want two years work experience with teaching English. If you have nothing to offer then I'd be very quite on demands! I�m quite when applying for a new job and I lot of experience. If you have proven yourself during the first contract then you can get a better deal when you re-contract. Here in Asia you let your work history do the talking and present yourself as quite and a non trouble maker.

[kungfucowboy83]

as was said you will have to give up your passport to the psb to get your residence permit. I recomend mulitple copies or scans of the info page and visas that are in it as a back up.

for housing keep in mind that you may have to pay 3 or 6 months in advance as well a a deposit but as the rule on how much is negotiate negotiate negotiate.

[AussieGuyInChina]

[Dedicated]

LaurenceR,

If you are going to be so demanding, yet fill your correspondence with as many grammatical and spelling mistakes as in your posts, then I don't think they will touch you with a barge-pole. They will expect quality.

[andrew_gz]

[arioch36]

I would suggest not to be demanding in many of the areas you mentioned. If the school is good, they will write you off. If the school is bad, they will lie through their teeth. But don't demand. You will have to give them your passport. But you can't let them keep it. Some schools try this

Bargain bargain bargain this is China. Demanding the laowai will just turn them of. After the bargain is made, be firm, yes. Otherwise they will try to ignore it

Now one thing to do is, when you have found a school that you think you are seriously interested in, rewrite the contract to fit your needs. Ask them how big the apartment is. Then in the contract right apartment must be so big, and ask them to ok the contract you have written.

Don't confuse scams with teacher versus administration negotiating. There are some scams out there. Getting the z-visa (well, the invitation letter from the school, then you go get the z-visa in your country, same day if you want) getting the z-visa and talking directly to your school, not using a reruiter, or if using in a recruiting ..in the end talking direct to the school ... these steps will eliminate 95% of the scams

But this ain't Kansas. Their idea of honoring the contract is simply different then ours. If you try to do everything your way, I think you will open your self up to a time here full of confrontational feelings (just got some pay from two years ago.)