Job Discussion Forums

[caliTEFLhopeful]

Thank you for taking the time to look at my post. I will try and ask my questions as straight forward as possible so they are helpful to all and not just my self

1. Though It is mid December 2007 I would like to be in China by May/June/July (Summer) 2008. What should I be doing between now and then? Should I get certified as soon as possible? Should I get certified in China then look for a job?

2. Which programs have been successful for other teachers? I live in the California Bay Area if anyone local has some insight. Is there a minimum number of hours that an ESL course should consist of?

3. Shanghai is my ideal location to spend a semester or two working. What schools (public or private) have you guys worked at that you would recommend and what do they offer their teachers? My priorities for a school to work at are as follows (in order!)...

1. Location, location, location: I would prefer to be located within the proper city, close enough to sight-see
2. Hours per week: Under 30 hrs a week would be ideal
3. Housing: Where do I live?
4. Length of contract: 6 months? a year?
5. Monthly salary: Money is the least of my worries

Most importantly the over-all experiences and happiness that came from working at that location!

Thank you for checking out the post, feel free to respond to any part of this post. All information will be greatly appreciated!

Thank you, Robert Row[/img]

[eslstudies]

Robert, do you have a degree? If not, stop thinking "Shanghai". If yes. your questions may get some replies, but Shanghai is competitive, and experience is one of most employers' first criteria. You don't seem to have any.

[caliTEFLhopeful]

Yes, I have a BA in Political Science from a pretty good school. Just need a ESL certification. Also work experience and a year working with young Hispanic children for Americorps (so i have experience working with non English speakers)

[kev7161]

How many newcomers have come around lately with questions and this statement (in one form or another) seems to be included in most:

[bearcanada]

CaliTEFL, don't let these people put you off. There are so many negative and mean-spirited posters on this board. Ignore them. Everything in your post is sensible and I have no doubt you will do well in Shanghai.

Below is a post I made on an earlier thread for someone else who wanted to come to Shanghai. It should answer most of your questions.

In the end you have to do what feels right for you. Shanghai is such a large city that all things are possible. Put your doubts behind you and just do it.

It may help if I share some of my experiences with you. When I decided to move to China, Shanghai was my only choice and I have no regrets. For me it was like coming home. This city is totally cool. I've seen much of China and like much of it, but I love this city and would prefer to just visit all the other places.

Before I came, I spent some time on the internet making all the contacts I could find - with recruiters, schools, companies, anybody and everybody. I checked That's Shanghai, Craigslist, 51job.com and every other place looking for jobs, private students and contacts. I got lots of each.

Then I came here on my own dime (in the month of December, as it happened, and stayed for Christmas). I spent the month at a small but nice enough hotel, and used the time to meet all those contacts, to line up teaching jobs and to find an apartment. Then I returned to Canada, cleaned up some affairs there and returned a month later.

The first job I got was teaching general conversational English for a smallish (100 people) Chinese company owned by an American (they did software programming). I worked one afternoon a week (5 hours) for which they were happy to pay 300 RMB an hour. So, working for one afternoon a week gave me 6,000 RMB a month.

I found a very nice (900 sq. ft) two-br. apartment, fully furnished for 3,000 RMB a month. It was in a complex of 12 buildings, with pool, clubhouse, coffee shop, exercise room, huge supermarket below, and sitting right on top of a subway station - which made my transportation very convenient. The place was all glass and marble, and pretty much immaculate. I couldn't have done much better.

Of the 6,000 pay for that one job, 3,000 went on rent and another 2,000 went on utilities, food, local transportation, small purchases, everything I needed to live on a daily basis. That means that teaching one afternoon a week gave me more than enough money to live on, and lots of time to explore the city.

I found some other similar corporate teaching jobs and some good private students, just through the contacts I had made earlier. One of my private students was the owner of a quite large Chinese company and she liked my lessons enough that she gave me a permanent part-time job for 3 hours every morning at a salary of 15,000 RMB a month. Not high, but I taught a one-hour class and spent the other two hours doing various English-related things like writing press releases, editing proposals and documents, and so on. Easy job, good fun.

I prefer the corporate teaching for many reasons. I don't like the rigor of the school systems, and I like the freedom I have in a company. Plus, the owners are happy if their staff are happy; I don't have to deal with parents or FAOs or a host of other things. I spend my time with many nice young adults who really do want to improve their English and who are happy to help me learn Chinese.

Also, in these firms the owners and the students want to keep you happy. They will do many things to accommodate you that a school cannot or will not, and usually they are not inhibited by bureaucracy.

In your position, you can earn a lot more money and have a lot more fun teaching in companies. You can try the large ones like Siemens or Intel, but that's where everyone goes and they have no shortage of resumes. There are zillions of smaller firms who would be willing to hire you if you ask.

Try to find an apartment very near ( or on top of) a subway station. That convenience is not to be underestimated. Downtown is where you want to live, between Zhongshan Park and People's Square, but the rent is expensive (7,000 RMB or more) and you may not be able to afford that in your first year. So find something that's relatively nice and new and clean, with good transportation access, and be patient. The only downside with my first home here was a 1-hour commute downtown every day.

But your first year will pass quickly, you'll have time to get to know the city and find your next home. You'll have more steady work and will have some money saved and you can then move into something downtown.

For jobs, take whatever comes along at the start, but keep in mind that you want to weed them out later. You shouldn't have any trouble finding really good long-term assignments - My jobs here haven't changed for years. Don't let yourself get into the position of having to jump from one short-term assignment to another because that's a treadmill you'll regret. Look for people who want you, and you can stay a long time. I have friends teaching here who have been with the same company for 5 and 6 years, and everyone's happy. You can do that too. Having several part-time jobs is not a bad thing - the variety is useful and entertaining, and you can reuse many of your lessons and gain experience much faster.

For private students, there are many Chinese executives and managers in both small and large companies here who will be happy to know you and they won't argue about paying 250 RMB an hour. The downside is that they skip lessons with some regularity because they must travel, but still they are great students.

Depending on how many hours you want to work, two or three steady part-time jobs and a few private students here and there, and you can easily earn 20,000 to 30,000 a month. That's a hell of a lot more than you need and, except for the absence of a car, you'll live a whole lot better than you did back home.

One caution I would give you is that you want to get job locations that are close together - preferably downtown. Really. Pay attention to this. It won't be profitable or fun for you to spend one hour travelling to a one-hour lesson and then another hour travelling back to another. You'll lose half of your time and your potential salary. Make an effort on this, and do your first scouting in the downtown area I mentioned above.

As an example, I was offered a full-time job with Siemens, teaching a group of 50 Ph.Ds. Good salary, free apartment and so on. But they were away off in the Jin Qiao district where there are no subways, almost no buses, and the apartment was beside the company complex. It was
more than a 1.5 hour commute to get downtown, which meant it couldn't be done during the week. In the end, it would have been like living in Suzhou - which is only 50 minutes away from Shanghai. I would never have really lived in or gotten to know Shanghai at all if I had accepted that job, so I turned it down and was very happy that I did.

I was also once offered a wonderful part-time job teaching aviation technicians and engineers, but the company was away out past the Pudong airport and the commute was at least 1.5 hours each way. The company offered their car and driver to pick me up and take me back downtown again, but the travel time would have almost equalled the lesson time and it just wasn't sensible or economical.

I'm fortunate to have two corporate clients across the street from each other, so I can leave one job and trot across the street to the next with no loss in time (or money), and that's perfect. Plus, they're right downtown, 5 minutes from the Jing'An Temple and 10 minutes from my home. I didn't plan that; it just happened, but I'm grateful for the good luck because it makes my life so easy.

You will find many people who will be happy and even honored to help you with everything from finding an apartment to getting a phone and an internet connection, to teaching you how to ask where is the nearest bathroom. They will help you to buy a good translating electronic dictionary - with pinyin - which you will really need. They will take you shopping, help you buy train tickets, show you how to buy and use a transit pass and an IP card for long-distance phone calls, they will help you to buy bedding for your apartment, and will baby-sit you more than you will need.

If I can offer an heretical thought, stay away from foreigners when you move here. You don't have to avoid them like a plague, but in the large cities it is too easy to look for your own kind. And if you do that, you are not living, not in Shanghai and not in China. It will be the same as living beside Chinatown in Boston, where you can go out for Chinese food whenever you want but then go back home to your American friends. There are many expats in Shanghai who have been here for years and have still never lived here. All of my friends in Shanghai are Chinese and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Get to know your students. Go out with them to a KTV (well, a karaoke bar like the Cash Box. Avoid KTV), go out for dinner with them. Ask one (a pretty girl, naturally) to come shopping with you, to take you to places like Cheung Huang Miao or the Wai Tan (the Bund). They'll be your best tour guides and will treasure the time to practice their English with you.

Hope some of my comments help to solidfy things for you.

Best Wishes. You'll love this city.

.

[Mr. Kalgukshi]

Several off-topic and otherwise inappropriate postings have been deleted. Please stay on topic and avoid posting personal insults on this and all other threads.

[vikuk]

[eslstudies]

[judgedredd]

[caliTEFLhopeful]

lets not worry about that ok guys? I just need advice on finding a good ESL program in the US or in China... More advice like Bear's would be great! I am sure many of you have a lot of interesting stories/experiences that would help people like myself...

[judgedredd]

There's quite a few interesting stories around on this forum, if you have the time and energy to search for them! Good luck..

[bearcanada]

eslstudies, my comments weren't directed to you. They referred to several posts after yours - all of which have been deleted by the moderators as being offensive - which more or less justifies my comment.

.

[eslstudies]

Bear, sorry I snapped. The OP explained the situation. It seemed out of character for you anyway.

[baasbabelaas]

Great post bear.

I'm not in Shanghai, so I wouldn't expect to earn top dollar (30000+), but I definitely want to do more of what you're doing..