Job Discussion Forums

[malu]

[arioch36]

I personally doubt LOST works in China

Just a flaming troll with nothing real to add to a conversation

[lostinasia]

There is a perfectly valid basis for the illegality of us working outside the term of our contracts. The sponsor is responsible for us while in the country on the term of the visa.

There are many other reasons and yet we all grow weary of the crap.

Fact is - a law is a law and it's not YOUR option to violate it. Once again, if you are incapable and unwilling to follow any said law - then it's time to leave and return home; where I'm sure you're less willing to violate the laws.

You = anyone

You =x any specific person

[lostinasia]

[Anda]

Posted - 06/04/2007 : 13:17:32
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http://www.wuhantime.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1926

sinophilia is correct i think. it's a bit of a catch 22; i'm pretty sure the only way part-time teaching is legal is if you already have a job with a contract (the only way to get a Z visa) and that employer gives you signed consent to get part-time work elsewhere in your free time. but few employers would be willing to do this - a) because they'd be worried about you sourcing a better full-time job this way, and b) just because! that said, very many teachers with full-time contracts do pick up part-time work on the side without any problems. the same would apply to your desire to freelance as a translator, vitamin C. if you got a job with a contract and then did work on the side, strictly speaking you'd have to have written consent from your main employer, which they wouldn't do of course - they don't want you doing translation work on the side when they could be getting that work. as sino says, the authorities tend to turn a blind eye to people doing part-time work, not only teaching, because china needs these foreign skills. god knows why the government doesn't just fix the visa problems - create a sub-category of the Z visa. in australia, and many other western countries, there is such a visa category - it's called a working holiday visa. about 4 years ago i was busted by the PSP and foreign affairs police for working part-time, without a contract and so on, but that was because a disgruntled former employer (with good psp 'contacts', ie money under the table relationship) found out where i was teaching and reported me, so the authorities will invoke the law if they care to do so.


muuji

[arioch36]

[drakis]

I'll add a few things here to provide a different perspective.

Some people seem to be really stuck on what's legal or not. This question is not quite as relevant in China as it is in other countries. I have broken laws in many countries, but I don't think I'm therefor evil. In Canada and the U.S. it is illegal to drive faster than the posted speed limit, yet I have gotten many tickets to account for my illegal activities. These things usually resulted in fines. I've even been known to partake of some illegal substances for pleasure. Quite illegal, quite punishable.

In China I had to explain my illegal work on a tourist visa thanks to my first employer who is not a great example of a good businessman. I spent four hours at a PSB office documenting events and even answering questions about how much beer and/or baijiu I could drink. The only reason I was there was that we were trying to get a proper visa for me for a proper contract at a proper school. They did inform me that technically they could punish me with deportation, however, they did instead offer two choices: pay a 1000 RMB fine or spend five days in jail. They were extremely shocked when I asked to spend five days in jail, and after some more discussion and joking around, we agreed that a 500 RMB fine would be suitable enough.

Even before that I had gotten fined for not registering at the PSB within a day of my arrival. The original fine was 1000 RMB and after some phone calls down to 500 RMB. My Chinese friends still thought that was a bit too high and after my friends calling their friends and their friends, one of whom was friends with the boss of the boss of the person I was talking to, the fine was reduced to 300 RMB with the explanation that they couldn't go any lower than that. I had originally suggested they could fine me three bottles of beer (one for everyone there including me). This suggestion was well received, but accounting for that would be more difficult.

That was two years ago and I had only one incident with the law since then. This was when I barged into a students' dormitory two floors up from where I am at 3:00 A.M. trying to get them to pipe down. This resulted in some misunderstanding and a little scuffle which ended with one student going to the hospital and two students being hauled into the campus office with the head of the PSB apologizing to me for what had happened. I told them I didn't want the students punished as they were drunk. They did get fined 1000 RMB each ( three students), though as I'm sure the four police officers that showed up along with their boss didn't want to leave empty handed.

Since that time I've also appeared on TV at least once a month (as there are only about 50 foreigners here in a city of about 7 million). I've had TV reporters as students and the mayor of the city (whose official income is less than mine, but whose real income is about 4 million a year, according to some of my policeman friends) is also no longer a stranger.

Things are different in China. It's not about the law - it's more about satisfying people's needs. If you serve noone's needs and break the law, punishment can be more severe than for other people. If you provide something for your Chinese community, or at least those with power or powerful friends, then you need not worry too much about the law. The law is nothing more than a tool for people who want to get what they want. If you make enemies here, those enemies will use the law against you. If you make friends, then the law is much more theoretical.

As for contracts, yes, most contracts state something about no outside work as well as many other things I don't remember, as I deleted all the things I didn't like before signing the contract, while also adding other things. A contract is an agreement between two parties, as such you shouldn't blindly accept everything they want you to agree to. The idea of a contract is that it be a 'mutual' understanding. If there are things you don't agree with, then it's no longer mutual, and you must not accept the work if you cannot agree on terms of your employment.

Be nice to the people around, keep their interests in perspective, and it will be much easier for you to do whatever you want. China can be quite a forgiving place. A Chinese judge who gets caught taking bribes, for example, doesn't get fired, but gets a warning. If he continues and gets caught three times he faces his worst possible punishment - DEMOTION - usually at the same salary as before.

[arioch36]

pretty much agree ... Law in the states means ...oops, gotta hire some lawyers. What does the fine print of the law say

law in China often means .. someone has done wrong. Now reach an agreement so this doesn't have to create a fuss and be troublesome. The "fact of law" is often only considered as a tool to induce a reluctant party of the disagreement to agree to a conclusion. Guanxi, unfortunately, is often what one person hopes t o persuade the other party he has, so as not having to pay what they should.

Fines with the PSB, like anything else, bargain, bargain, bargain

That's why I emphasize what someone means by "busted", which often is just having to say you are sorry

[Teatime of Soul]

[vikuk]