Job Discussion Forums

[clark.w.griswald]

Lostinasia I wasn't taking the Mickey out of you in my earlier post. I would genuinely like to get some answers back from your student in relation to what she has already told you. No third degree, just clarification of how from her experience this works.

As Arioch has pointed out, I would think that basing everything upon an address would be somewhat impractical but if that is really how it is done then it would be good to understand how SAFEA addresses the concerns that I raised in my earlier post.

[lostinasia]

The girl works in the actual Foreign Exerts government office in Jinan. I teach part time in a SAFEA international education center located at a university campus - thus, adults. Yes, the law and policy is not necessarily how things are practiced as there is no real chain of command or integration of linked offices in the system - let alone corruption or guanxi. But in the end, I believe that the law is more important than how things are "really done." And so, my comments about how this student/government worker told me the regulation.

What specific question do you have? I'll get the answers from her ...

[gdfroberts]

[clark.w.griswald]

[vikuk]

[IanMWashburn]

Dear vikuk:

This might seem like a big joke but...

...there are millions of Chinese who are trying very hard, and often at great sacrifice, to develop a nation that lives ny the rule of law.

To simply say, "This is China", is to disrespect those Chinese who struggle every day, to establish a strong, modern China.

A China that lives within the laws and regs.

So please, before you make jokes about, "This is China" etc...try to respect the living and dead Chinese, whose lifeblood is / was dedicated to building a new China, which can stand proudly among the community of nations.

On behalf of my brave and proud Chinese friends, I say...

...thank you!


--Ian M. Washburn

[OGFT]

[vikuk]

[OGFT]

[HunanForeignGuy]

There have been various issues that have been raised here and that should be addressed.

Ian M. Washburn raised the question of "piggybacking" a work authorization to hire foreigners. This is a rather common practice and very often a school will wish to hire a foreigner but either the school's paperwork has been lost in a bureaucratic shuffle, or as is the case of a new school, the minimum one-year statutory period in which a foreigner CANNOT be hired has not yet passed, etc., etc. and the school will often enter some kind of a very Chinese-style arrangement to piggyback the foreign teacher from the school that has already secured authorization to hire foreigner. As a matter of course, such a kindness is not done gratuitously. After all, this is China and money is money. Additionally this is not something that occurs uniquely in the private sector here -- it also occurs with a certain consistency among public schools, particularly in the poorer parts of the country.

Next, concerning the deportation issue. I feel terrible for the OP. Nonetheless, something doesn't make sense to me and I will need to reread the original posting again. In China, it is true that a Z visa only guarantees entry into the country for a limited period of time and that a Z visa is then superseded by a residence permit. The residence permit is the controlling document -- not the FEC nor the AWP. Both are needed and in some cases required but when either changing jobs, etc., etc., it is the case of the residence permit that controls status in the country. The FEC / AWP controls work status at a particular entity. I am aghast that someone would have been deported over such an issue. And I write this based on long, personal conversations with the PSB which occurred at one point in my stay in China.

Next, FEC vs. AWP has more to do with a person's crecentials than anything else. An FEC presupposes (and I say this very generally because I have seen it flaunted so many times) a certain level of education and background and the AWP presupposes a lessor level of education and background. In the university where I taught last year there was one Canadian teacher who initially was given a AWP as a result of his or her background and yet over time this AWP moulted into a FEC, both of which were duly issued.

As for the entire hoopla of a forged AWP / FEC raised by a previous poster, there are many ways that this can be checked easily and quickly. In all of my years in China, I have heard of a lot of inordinate practices covering the entire spectrum of questionable practices, but forging AWP's and FEC's has not been one of them.

[IanMWashburn]

Thank you HFG for another clear, helpful and on-topic posting!

You write:

[vikuk]

[HunanForeignGuy]

Do you like the picture on your Foreign Expert's Bureau card? Perhaps it is a terrible picture and perhaps the glue is terrible and the picture is in danger of falling off. Who knows? If you don't like the picture, have another more beautiful picture made, taking into account local regulations, and then go to the Qingdao Foreign Expert's Bureau -- not the Education Bureau -- and ask them to replace the picture or to affix the old one back into place. You will need to bring your passport. Be very careful in any case not to loose the original picture or tamper with the document. If you push them enough (and they will just think that you are another crazy foreigner), they will replace the picture or reglue the original and then they will verify the document in the process. Have all of your wits about you, stay calm, do not get into a flap, etc., etc.

Only one point escapes me here, kind friend, and that is why you are wasting all of this negative energy on this cause. In your shoes, and I have been there, and this is China, I would simply get a new job and move on very quickly. I know that it's easier said than done but I have been through something similar and yes, I actually had almost to drag a school to the people's court over salary, etc., but in the end, I moved on (and got paid, too).

All the best,

HFG

[clark.w.griswald]

Let's not bury the point of this thread.

Yes we all know what can happen in China. That is not news for anyone and the value of continually pointing out the obvious as if it is something new seems kind of pointless.

What I hope Lostinasia can help us find out is whether the practices questioned by me earlier are considered legal and proper in the eyes of that SAFEA office.

If we can get an answer to that then this should help us all understand the logic behind some of the practices that we often see as being illogical!

Perhaps the OP can then use this information to argue his case and avoid court time as I am not so sure that the courts is the best place to resolve this.

[arioch36]

Vikuk