Job Discussion Forums

[Seiko]

I�m actually looking for a little advice on evaluating a couple of options when it comes to starting up in Japan�

Brief background� 24, graduate of Law, living in London� one year ESL experience from South Korea and approaching one year corporate experience working for a FTSE250 company doing consultancy and business analysis in the city� I�m currently looking for the best way to get myself over to Japan to develop language skills and gain some cultural exposure with the end goal of moving into an international relations based role in a couple of years, or reaching JLPT Level 2 so that I open up other possibilities within the Japanese job market� now, I appreciate this forum is predominantly ESL based, but I see ESL as my initial step into the market� after a fair amount of reading etc, the 3 most viable options � short of flying out and witnessing the remnants of NOVA�s collapse which I�m sure still exist � seem to be:

1. Westgate� they seem to be the fastest moving in getting you out there and I would like to be out there sooner rather than later. Application deadline appears to be in February with London interview day scheduled for February too. I�ve read a little on the forum about them and take that all on board � but the 3 month initial contract is a nice bonus because it puts me over there to survey the lie of the land� $$$ sounds better than the average salary too� am I also right in assuming the 81,000Y monthly rent is a figure you�re required to stump up out of your own salary unlike Korea whereby it�s part of the package?

2. GEOS� another big corporation, difference being 12 month contracts� also doesn�t appear to the most straightforward if applying from outside US or Canada

3. Aeon� not much to say� apparently they do some charitable based work, but you�re tied up for 12 months�

I�d say at this stage my preference would be Westgate but am hoping for some suggestions that fall inside or even outside of the above 3� also, besides the Tokyo area, which other cities have a substantial enough corporate / international grounding to help me network effectively and open doors beyond ESL???

Many thanks.

[markle]

[G Cthulhu]

[drifter13]

I'll agree with G Cthulhu, if you have a stable business job right now, try working it on your end, coming over here and starting out in an english converation school is a major step back, espcially now. Take some Japanese classes at home and then try and make contact over here through business channels. If you were looking for taste of asia for a couple years then I'd say go for it, but if you want a serious carreer, I would hold on to the very valuable advantages you have at home.

[Glenski]

I hope I don't sound like a bulldog guarding his territory, but I have to agree with Cthulhu and drifter. Here's my take.

Westgate seems to prefer people not just with a year of experience, but with certification in TEFL. You didn't say that you had any, but you seem to be thorough enough in your post (thank you), so I will assume you don't have any.

Yes, Westgate offers 3-month contracts (and a 7-month one, if I'm not mistaken, but you teach a different sort of students), but you are going to be working long hours. Just when do you imagine making any contacts? You'll hardly have time to study Japanese by yourself. Trust me, it takes a lot of discipline to stay in your home and hit the books, while all of life goes by outside. Moreover, studying by yourself will only teach you the book language; it won't necessarily show you what the real spoken language is like.

When your 3 months with Westgate are up, you have to leave their apartment (yes, you pay for it, they don't), and that means only that you keep the visa they sponsored for the remainder of the 12 months. You will have to find a new place to live and a new source of income. Not sure when they actually bring people over, but with February interviews, that would suggest April start dates, and 3 months later means early July, which is the beginning of slow hiring time here in EFL.

Cutting out from your present job also seems a strange diversion. Study Japanese where you are now and remain in the business instead of showing a gap of roughly a year on your resume (actually two 1-year gaps if you count Korea, right?). I would imagine the business is fairly cutthroat as it is, so having the best possible resume would seem more of a priority than hoping for any contacts here while you learn how to teach and get used to a new country.

My advice is to look at www.daijob.com and read Terrie Lloyd's columns there. See what is the best route for you. A law degree and current job in your field of interest seems a shame to set aside for an outside chance at making contacts by teaching EFL.

[Seiko]

Thanks for the input...

I think my itching to conduct the process as described is due to the fact that I�m far from certain whether I want to be in my current occupation down the line... perks and FTSE250 company aside, my days aren�t too fulfilling... heading to Japan would be more akin to starting over which I guess begs the follow-on question of whether it�s smarter to amass experience in another field in the UK [the foreign office being a consideration] or to make that jump to Japan through ESL if it isn�t a long-term preference... Japan is obviously different to Korea but a second point attracting me to making that jump is that I was able to play the physical attributes card in Korea to open a good number of doors when I was there [albeit nothing career based since my vision was a year and nothing more] and I hear Japan is a similarly image obsessed country...

Hitting the books in the meantime seems to be the smart thing, time permitting... I guess I should be thankful that I�m based in a city as multi-cultural as London... finding a language exchange partner shouldn�t be too difficult, and I know there�s a Japan Centre just round the corner from the office that could be fruitful... any tips on learning resources and durations? Japanesepod101 seems to be a pretty good internet resource from browsing the net earlier today.

[drifter13]

As with learning any language, it differs from person to person. I will say that you should definitely take advantage of the Japan Center and any language or cultural programs they might have. Also, find things in Japanese that interest you; music, cinema, fashion etc. As you learn more Japanese try immersing yourself through your preferred outlet. Japanese has been known to be one of the harder languages to learn (at least for most westerners), but if you're determined enough I'm sure you'll do fine.

[Seiko]

Good points Drifter,

Obviously I�m at a very early stage, but one thing I�m definitely finding useful is my previous experience in Korean... I�m far from fluent but speak enough and spent long enough in the country to see a lot of similarities in the sounds of syllables, especially those that aren�t found in the English language... one thing that will definitely help is my fondness for elements of Japanese culture, I�ve always been intrigued in the console gaming side since the days of the Neo Geo when some of the best games only saw release in the Japanese market... just browsing through Play Asia at some of the Japanese only Sony and Nintendo titles is inspiration enough... there�s definitely far more exciting reasons for me to learn Japanese than there would be Mandarin, Cantonese or Korean

I�m currently seeking a Mixi invite as another means of immersion... anyone here kind enough to send one my way?

[Hoser]

[Vince]

I agree with the advice to make the transfer from within your current UK situation. If you transfer, you'll likely arrive with a nice expat package that will make things much more comfortable for you (maybe including paid Japanese lessons); you'll surely make more in your transferee position than most EFL teachers make; you'll be held in higher esteem by both Japanese and foreigners (apologies to EFL teachers). Aside from foreigners who grew up in Japan, the foreigners I knew with the most accomplished Japanese (spoken and written) were those who studied Japanese at university back home.

[Glenski]

[ironopolis]

[Glenski]

[Seiko]

Again, thanks for the advice...

Glenski, thanks for the input thus far but I�m not sure what instigated the little tirade, and how you failed to relate the post you dissected in quotes to the start of a discussion on learning the language... I had written in direct response to Drifter13 who responded to the lone question I asked in my previous post, seeking recommendations for the best learning resources and study habits... I specifically wrote �Korean� and not �Korea� to make it plain that I was talking about the language and not the country... I don�t expect one year ESL in Korea to open any real doors in Japan, merely aid in getting me on the bottom rung of the ladder over someone without any experience should I decide to use ESL as an avenue to go out there... I was just reflecting on the phonetic similarities that seem to exist between the Japanese and Korean languages... I'm not fluent in Korean but I speak to a basic level through study and immersion, but understanding and getting my tongue around sounds such as the �t/d� and �k/g� and thinking outside the Latin alphabet are no longer alien concepts... in learning Korean they were two substantial obstacles I had to find motivation to overcome... my interest in Japanese culture also related to language learning in representing added motivation... which in turn linked in to my preference of learning Japanese as opposed to Mandarin at this stage, because a decision to embark on the latter would wholly be for commercial advantage...

Nope, I�m not that idiot who wrote in about giving up his �50K for �24K, lol... and I can fully appreciate the mindset of �the grass is always greener�... but I do honestly feel that I could put my experience, personality, successes and initiative that have taken me to where I am currently, to good use in being successful in Japan, China, Korea or wherever I decided to ply my trade through a corporation or independently...

[Glenski]

Seiko,
One year of "ESL" in Korea usually doesn't get counted by employers here for anything, so IMO you stand the same chance with many employers as someone with no experience. Just IMO.

As far as the language goes, I don't know Korean, but I've heard snippets from TV commercials and Korean dramas here. The sounds are sometimes quite unlike Japanese. The k/g sounds are more different than you might think. I don't know about any t/d differences, but between English and Japanese you get the following phonemes for the "t" sounds:
ta
chi (no real "ti" sound as we English speakers know it)
tsu (no real "tu" sound, either)
te
to

da
di
du
de
do