Job Discussion Forums

[Phil_K]

We have all had the experience of almost fluent students who make basic mistakes or pronounce badly. I once had two students in the same class do an exam. One who communicated badly got (as always) a pretty good grade. The other, who spoke reasonably fluently scored much lower. Talking to the second student afterwards in private, I told him that I would rather be him than the other student, drawing on my experiences of learning Spanish.

The question is, should we be so demanding in the areas of grammar and pronunciation, when in most cases, the ability to communicate orally in English is the most important thing. Leaving aside for a moment those whose necessity is written English, what do you think? As you can see, I tend toward the communication side.

[MO39]

[notamiss]

I see that in the way you are posing your question, you are equating communication and fluency. This seems intuitive, but in fact if grammar and/or pronunciation are so poor as to distort the speaker's meaning, the seemingly fluent speaker is not really communicating the message he means to communicate to the listener. It is even possible for a fluent conversation to take place in which neither speaker nor listener are aware that they are misunderstanding each other. (I've experienced this!)

There is also a situational aspect, namely where and with whom the student is going to be speaking English in real life; in some situations accurate communication is more important, and in others a verbal "buena presentaci�n" is more crucial.

In the bottom line and speaking generally I must agree with MO; these aspects are inseparable and one can't take priority over the other. I think she raises another good point; did the test measure what you wanted it to measure?

[TheLongWayHome]

[MO39]

[MixtecaMike]

For teachers who live in a country where English is not spoken and have to struggle to be understood every day communication is more important. Maybe for your students, who have no plans to communicate much in English but want a qualification to better their work situation then syntax and vocabulary or whatever is in their tests would be much more important.
Provide what the clients demand, not want you think they should have.

[MO39]

[TheLongWayHome]

[MixtecaMike]

[MixtecaMike]

[jfurgers]

I have seen MANY students at the college where I teach in Texas who know the grammar rules so well that they could teach an English grammar class at the university level, but they sound terrible when they speak due to the fact that they never practice talking with native speakers in real life situations.

Students must not only focus on grammar or they will NEVER be able to handle themselves in a REAL LIFE situation. I have seen this so many times.

If a teacher only focuses on grammar and pronunciation the students will never be able to handle themselves in a real life situation. But I'm in the States and so are my students. So to the students I teach, conversation is the most important. I guess it just depends on the situation. My students live and work in the States so they tell me that they need to improve their fluency skills. They aren't that concerned with accuracy because North Americans don't care if someone ends a sentence with a preposition.

On the job, in real life the only thing the North Americans are concerned with is if the employee can understand them. The situation dictates what's the most important aspect of English they need to focus on. A few of my students want to focus on writing as well as their conversation if they are working in an office, but for the most part they need to be able to understand and be understood at work.

[MO39]

I don't see why there needs to be a dichtomy between being able to communicate in English and having a practical knowledge of grammar and pronunciation; both are necessary. Here's an example: Elia, a very nice Mexican woman, comes to clean my mother's house once a week here in the Philly suburbs. They manage to communicate adequately most of the time, but sometimes Elia's pronunciation is so far from the norm that my mother really can't understand what's she's saying. Don't you agree that this is a problem?

[TheLongWayHome]

[jfurgers]

I'm not saying grammar and pronunciation aren't inportant, I am saying that if students ONLY focus on the rules they'll never be able to speak. I know this because I see it all of the time and like the linquistic I know told me many times...

the only way to learn how to speak a language is to speak the language.

As I said before, many students KNOW THE GRAMMAR yet still can't speak.

So many have been brain washed into thinking that one can't talk correctly if they don't know all of the grammar. So incorrect is that thinking. Again and again I see students who think if they ONLY learn all of those rules, they will speak perfect.

I could read many books on how to fly a 747 and then explain to people HOW to fly one. That doesn't mean that I would be able to get in one and ACTUALLY FLY it.

That would require HANDS ON EXPERIENCE. I try to teach that ALL is important. Grammar, pronunciation, writing, and reading are all things that can be learned in a class and to a degree speaking.

But the best classroom for speaking is the real world, real life SITUATIONS.

[ls650]

I don't like the wording of the original question. It sounds as though the choice must be one area or the other, but of course both are equally valuable.