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| Do native speakers speak a 'dumbed down' version of English? |
| Yes |
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61% |
[ 11 ] |
| No |
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38% |
[ 7 ] |
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| Total Votes : 18 |
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Message |
arioch36
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 3589
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 Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:58 am Post subject: |
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All I can say is that England must have the most amazing migrants.
First, let me ask if in British English "migrant" and "immigrant" are equated with each other? Certainly not in any understanding I have of the language.
But I really don't buy what this person has to say. In America, at my uni in New York, I was friends with many, I mean many, foreign graduate students. Most of them still had problems with English. Very few came to the standard of the average American. When it comes to migrant workers, I have not found migrant workers to have exceptional english. Sorry, does not compute
instrumentalisation Couldn't find this word in several dictionaries
| Quote: |
| however, Mark Twain, for example, appreciated the advantages of writing plainly |
What? I am sorry, I do not concur. I am not a student of Twain, but I do not concur. Actually Twain is difficult because he tries to use dialect a lot. Twain may try to have characters who he claims speak plainly, hardly the same. Twain tried to maintain an appearance of being simple, but worked at expressing complex ideas.
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| I do not feel comfortable in a situation in which I, a Polish emigrant, whose English needs endless brushing up, has to translate words into plain English when engaging in a discussion with native speakers |
So we get to the heart of the matter. This person is in love with themself, thus argues that using "so" instead of "thus" is "dumbing down"
As others have said, we speak differently according to our environment
I do agree that people who own bars may favour "plain english" compared to a crossword enthusiast. The tv show Cheers certainly made use of this stereotype. My verdict is that the writer uses a lot of big words to fluff up an empty article. I guess I have more the barkeep mentality. Seems to me this writer with the wonderful vocabulary simply doesn't have a vocabulary large enough to understand "simple english" Hmm |
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gaijinalways
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 2279
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:50 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I am not a student of Twain, but I do not concur. Actually Twain is difficult because he tries to use dialect a lot. Twain may try to have characters who he claims speak plainly, hardly the same. Twain tried to maintain an appearance of being simple, but worked at expressing complex ideas. |
Maybe Hemingway would be a better example as he used very short sentences and words and still managed to get across pretty complex rules.
| Quote: |
This person is in love with themself, thus argues that using "so" instead of "thus" is "dumbing down"
As others have said, we speak differently according to our environment |
Interesting plural person; me, myself, and I by any chance?
But seriously, she does have a valid complaint, but 'snobbing' your coworkers with your vocabulary won't buy you friends. |
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soapdodger
Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 203
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gaijinalways
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 2279
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:46 am Post subject: |
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| That's pretty funny, more like a misconception of what war should be like, if it were funnier. Better not let the soldiers in Iraq see it...! |
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soapdodger
Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 203
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SueH
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 1022
Location: Northern Italy
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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A bit late to the party, but I've been having a good chuckle about the article as I unwind over a beer after football training and the drive home along the motorway, with all the mad Milanese racing past me for their weekend skiing.
For those who just read the bare article quoted on this thread (thanks whoever) it is worth going to the post-article comments on CiF, which I missed originally.
I have to say that teaching ESOL in the UK I enjoyed my Polish students, but their level of English left a lot to be desired. I'd enjoy meeting the writer as I'd be fascinated as to her language in normal situations. I suspect I might be tempted to take the piss and see if she recognised it. |
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jwbhomer
Joined: 14 Dec 2003
Posts: 876
Location: CANADA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 12:32 am Post subject: |
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| SueH wrote: |
| I have to say that teaching ESOL in the UK I enjoyed my Polish students, but their level of English left a lot to be desired. I'd enjoy meeting the writer as I'd be fascinated as to her language in normal situations. I suspect I might be tempted to take the piss and see if she recognised it. |
If she's American, she won't understand "take the piss".  |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 12:46 am Post subject: Cor blimey |
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Dear jwbhomer,
Oh, you generalizer, you. Some of us Americans have had the pleasure of having British colleagues during our time teaching, and, believe it or not, some of us actually picked up a few "Britishisms."
So, I guess you could say that this post is (in a nice way, of course) taking the piss.
It's safe as houses to say that Yanks who've worked with British teachers are streets ahead when it comes to kenning what comes out of their gobs.
Regards,
John |
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Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124
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| Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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| This person is in love with themself, |
Interesting plural person; me, myself, and I by any chance? |
Nope, it's a singular pronoun, the equivalent of singular 'they' for third persons of indeterminate sex, though much less common.
If the poster had linked to the original article they would have seen that the author of the article was very clearly femine.
The CiF article got around 600 responses, nearly all critical.
Another post on a similar theme by a lady migrant didn't fare much better though there were a lot less comments.
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/katy_steinmetz/2008/01/in_defence_of_the_igcse.html |
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Beyond1984
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 462
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 2:00 pm Post subject: We boast that we belong to the Nineteenth Century... |
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"... one of the roots of the problem!" -Soapdodger
As I have written elsewhere, we are underbred and low-lived and illiterate; and in this I do not make a distinction between the illiterateness of my townsmen who cannot read at all and the illiterateness of him who has learned to read only what is for children and feeble intellects.
-HDT
It is not all books that are as dull as their readers. |
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