Job Discussion Forums

[moonshine]

there is mention of being paid for the classroom teaching which will extend past the course itself of 4 weeks - the extension is 4 more weeks

additionally, work is pretty much a sure thing afterwards

I'm American and of course have heard one needs an EU passport to work there so I'm wondering if anyone non-EU has attended this course, what you thought of it, did you go to work there and all.

and yes, I have contacted the school am waiting to hear what they have to say about visas also

thanks!

[elamericano]

Here are some perspectives from a fellow American.

First, I will discuss the certification course. I completed their TEFL program several years back. It wasn't rigorous, but it's hard for a month-long problem to be like that anyway.

The course components for me were general English instruction/TEFL theory, teaching business English, and teaching English to children. The instructors were all qualified in their fields. The program's big failure is that there is no significant observed teaching component - really, all that consists of is them taping while you teach one of the Spanish office staff. The taped lesson is then used in evaluating your final program score. For the remaining teaching component hours, you are sent to various homes and businesses of Canterbury customers. They don't do their own on-site instruction.

You are paid for the teaching hours involved in the certificate completion *if* you already paid the full price of the program. The reduced price comes into effect if you agree to not be paid for the corresponding number of teaching hours required for the cert., so it's a wash either way.

In terms of teaching, you will not be provided with any curriculum or textbooks, but the school has a small library featuring different texts you can photocopy. The courses are mostly private (individual lessons) but they also do some company group classes. Overall, the lack of direction and guidance from Canterbury when it came to meeting student needs was frustrating.

The classes offered to customers are billed as 'conversation classes', which is a concept that I have a very negative opinion of.

I didn't deal with being employed by Canterbury after completing my program. Back when I got the certificate, I returned to the US and worked in a semi-related field for a couple of years. I decided last year to come back here to Spain. A few weeks after touring around Madrid and seeing some other parts of Europe, I answered a job ad posted in El Pais, and now teach business English for a different company, with full social benefits.

Canterbury is owned and run by foreigners, so your immigration status will be used against you. They may hem and haw about visas in their reply email, but the facts are simple. You will be working illegally and paid cash in an envelope. They also will not register you for Spanish public health and pension benefits. A Spanish employer is almost certainly a better option for you when it comes to securing equal treatment vis-a-vis your fellow EU workers.

The pay for when I first started with Canterbury was 10 euro an hour, and that was/is very low. When I talked to them more recently, just before I found my current job, it had increased to 13 an hour, which is still very bad because prices here in Spain are going nowhere but up. My current post is much better in all respects: pay, conditions, quality of students, and the like.

OK, let's now look at the bigger picture. There are two components to working legally in Spain. These are the work permit and the work visa.

The work permit is applied for by the employer. Essentially, they ask the Spanish government for permission to employ a non-EU worker. EU labor rules prevent employers from discriminating against workers from inside the European Union, so they technically can't show preference to workers based on national origin from within that zone (but from different countries) when it comes to choosing between applications.

But for those who are citizens of non-EU countries, there are several discriminatory legal provisions in place. One is that the employer must submit several documents, which said employers are typically loath to produce, certifying that they honestly could not find an EU worker to fill the job. They must also submit information about their management and finances. This takes multiple months to process. During that time, you may not legally work.

The other component is the work visa, which is what the job applicant him/herself submits after the work permit has been granted to the employer by the government. The work visa application is only accepted if submitted in person from the applicant's home country at a Spanish consulate designated as serving his/her state of residence. Then, you go back to that same consulate in person and pick up the visa (it's a sticker to be placed in your passport). Then, and only then, are you able to enter Spain and begin work.

I should emphasize that the government does not have to approve your app. even if you have followed all guidelines to the letter. Many qualified applicants are rejected outright. Your ability to compete fairly against EU workers based on skills is almost meaningless. You either have the right nationality or you don't.

Once you enter Spain with this proper visa, you must go to the local city hall office and empadronar, which essentially means registering with the city government. After obtaining the empadronamiento, you must go to your designated foreigner's office and apply for the tarjeta de residencia. At that time you can also get the tarjeta sanitaria, which is the health service card. I think at that point you're finally all set, but I may have forgotten about/not be aware of some other thing.

To conclude, I suggest you avoid Canterbury and look at another training program. I don't know of any and so cannot make recommendations. To avoid working illegally, you may want to get a cert. somewhere in the US and try to get hired from overseas, which would be easier in terms of legality but much, much harder in terms of finding a company that will hire you and go through all the paperwork. Because of the latter, you may well have to go to Spain, interview and get someone to hire you (I highly recommend checking out newspaper ads as many jobs are advertised there that aren't on the internet), and then return to the US in order to submit the visa application.

Consider looking into the business English sector. It is a prime area for non-EU candidates to find work. The level of professionalism in the work conditions is generally higher, too.

Good months to apply for jobs are September and October. The usual academic/contract work schedule here is October through June.

One other option is this program: http://www.mec.es/sgci/usa/en/programs/us_assistants/default.shtml.
You are paid a stipend and work under the auspices of an education visa. It's completely legal and you get full social benefits. The downside is that you are only an assistant teacher, must work with children/teens, receive paltry pay for 20 hours+/week of work (you pay for your own living expenses out of that), and get only partial say on where you will be sent. Airfare is not provided.

[spiral78]

elamericano, an EXCELLENT post!

Mods, can we please make this one a sticky?


It's the best long answer for the continual questions from non-EU citizen newbies seeking information about how they can get legal working status in Spain.

[elamericano]

Thanks, Spiral.

If this thread is turned into a sticky, it would be helpful to change the title to one that would grab the attention of those seeking non-EU visa information. 'Non-EU Work Visas for Spain' seems good.

I also think there should be a continually updated thread with a title like 'Legal work opportunities in Spain for non-EU teachers'. Posters can add entries with job ads that must *specifically* state the employer will assist those with non-EU status to obtain work papers.

The first thing that could be posted is a link to the Language and Culture Assistant Program since it is one of the best opportunities out there, not only for the job itself (well, as I pointed out, it's not really that good...) but also for the possible networking for those who are very serious about commiting to Spain long term. Business English teaching opportunities are also a good bet. If no one does this after a while, I could start it.

The schedule of when most newcomers finish their degrees and start looking at job opportunities - beginning in May during college graduation and peaking in September/October with the annual contract hiring season - makes it a good idea keep it going during that time so the board is not crowded with these questions as much in the future.

[moonshine]

well, I have no intention of editing the topic - and while I do appreciate anyone taking so much time and effort to respond, I was asking specifically about Cantebury et al.

here's the doc they sent in response to my query about visa info for non-eu pp holders:

>>>Questions about Passports and Work Visas

1. Apart from a valid U.S., Canadian, Australian (or other native-English speaking country) passport, what other papers or travel visas do I have obtain to enter Spain or the European Union?

All you need is a valid U.S., Canadian, Australian (or other) passport. You do not need anything else.

2. I have often heard that work visas (or working papers) for North Americans and Australians are difficult to obtain. Will I be able to secure a visa and work for you?

We do not require you to have a work visa to work in our program, nor do we provide such documents for students in our program.

3. What if I have further questions?

If you have any further questions, please call to the Canterbury English Teaching Academy and ask to speak specifically with James Clarke, the Director of Canterbury English. He can answer any other concerns that you might have. Please call between 9:30 AM and 5:30 PM Spanish time. Please do not forget that Spain is 6 hours, Eastern Time, to 9 hours, Pacific Time, ahead of the US, and one hour ahead of Great Britain. For example, if you are calling from California, you must call between 12:30 A.M. and 8:30 A.M. and from New York, between 3:30 A.M. and 11:30 A.M. The telephone number of the Canterbury English Teaching Academy is (34) 915229898.


We highly recommend calling and talking to James (who's from Los Angeles, California and graduated from the University of California at Santa Barbara), because he can clear up your many questions and doubts and more than anything else, give you the real life information and friendly advice to help you make that final key decision to come to Spain.

Alternatively, you can leave us a contact number and the best time to reach you. The director will telephone you back as soon as he can.

ADDRESS, TELEPHONE AND E-MAIL
Canterbury English
Calle Augusto Figueroa, 47 - 1� piso
28004 Madrid
Spain

<<<

it sounds very much like they aren't going to lift a finger to help one get legal working status but rather they will make like it's not important.

well, I'm sorry but it IS important - w/o legal papers a teacher is SOL if a problem arises; and they do, invariably, arise.

I've since come across TtMadrid who seem a bit more professional, here's their website:

http://www.ttmadrid.com/guaranteed-english-teaching-work.php

and I'm waiting to hear from them - I asked the same question about visas, etc.

cheers!

[elamericano]

The answers to your questions apply to anyone teaching anywhere inside Spanish territory for an employer. You are not asking just about Canterbury anyway because you said 'et al.' which is roughly equivalent to 'and others like it'.

Canterbury's responses are exactly what I predicted. Those answers are from a pre-formatted FAQ. That point about needing only a valid passport to enter Spain in order to work is not true because the entire basis of Spain's laws in this regard is that the worker must enter Spain with the correct visa already in his/her passport. A tourist visa is not legally valid for employment here. You cannot change your visa status within Spain - that can only be accomplished at the designated Spanish consulate for your state of residence.

TTMadrid is not going to be the employer of every person who completes its training course. That link just directs you to the employment agencies they'll refer you to after finishing, and such agencies are also probably not going to obtain work papers. Maybe you could contact the agencies directly and see what they say.

One thing you could also do is specify that you are currently in the US and make an offer to visit your Spanish consulate in order to complete immigration procedures. But you (as far as I know) don't have certification yet so they would likely not be interested in you, which is why my suggestion about getting a cert. in the US and/or doing the assistant program is something to consider.

[spiral78]

Moonshine, I suggest that you need to revise your questions.
You don't need any special visas to enter the country, or to take a training course. You need to know whether the organization is going to assist you with getting working papers after you are certified.

Quite honestly, the answer is 99% going to be 'no.' Training centres and regular private language schools are just not going to do this (essentially can't, feasibly) for a non-EU newbie teacher.