Job Discussion Forums

cafebleu · Joined: 10 Feb 2003 Posts: 404

Hi, recently I have been house/apartment hunting and I was told by a housing agency office worker that I would need not one but 2 guarantors to be able to rent a house.

I was surprised as I am not new to Japan but have lived here for a few years, can prove consistent employment and can prove that I am moving from my previous accomodation for usual reasons - NOT because of any trouble with anybody. I am of European ancestry and look it - it is not a case of racial discrimination as experienced by so many black men and women in Japan.

Is having to get 2 guarantors usual? I am a little annoyed as the accommodation offered is more like a shack than a house in my country but this is Japan and I am used to paying a lot of money to live in sub-standard dwellings. I could understand if the place I am interested was remotely good but it isn`t.

Any advice is appreciated. Thank you.

Sunpower · Joined: 22 Jan 2003 Posts: 256 Location: Taipei, TAIWAN

I know, aren't they pricks when it comes to stuff like this?

This is one of the things I truly hate about Japan.

We've also been ripped off by the land lord who said he had gone bank rupt and couldn't pay back the Y150,000 deposit.

But we paid him Y160,000 in gift money!!!

Crooked Pricks!!

homersimpson · Joined: 14 Feb 2003 Posts: 569 Location: Kagoshima

cafebleu · Joined: 10 Feb 2003 Posts: 404

Sunpower and Homer - thanks for your replies. I understand why Japanese landlords require a guarantor for a foreigner as we are a transient population, they don`t know us, despite a decent level of speaking Japanese that some of us can achieve we are by no means fluent and will never be in the real sense, etc, etc.

But I don`t understand why this shack owner is big-noting himself/herself and demanding that a foreign renter have two guarantors. If this were done to Japanese living in my country while they work or study they would scream about racial discrimination. Yes - racial discrimination is a reality in Japan for foreigners, not just black women and men although I think they have a much tougher time because of the average Japanese person`s prejudice against `kokujin`

Yet I still can`t understand the 2 guarantors. Maybe the rental housing office was big noting itself. After all, my Japanese friend who called on my behalf said it was a foreigner who was interested - it was maybe an on the spot knee jerk reaction from the rental agency. I would be interested to know if anybody has had to provide 2 guarantors. I have never heard of it before. If the place was a real house - fine. It is just some old shack.

Sherri · Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2003 6:34 am Post subject:

I would say to keep looking. I have never heard of anyone needing 2 guarantors. Also it is not just non-Japanese who need guarantors. Japanese need them too.

Sunpower · Joined: 22 Jan 2003 Posts: 256 Location: Taipei, TAIWAN

nakanoalien2 · Joined: 04 Mar 2003 Posts: 52 Location: Nakano, Japan

I've never heard of 2 guarantors. Although it may be even worse for non-white foreigners here, there is certainly plenty of prejudice/xenophobia to go around.

2 guarantors is not necessary. My impression though is that the oyasan/ienushi/landlord can call tell the fudosan people the conditions under which they will rent.

The best thing is to completely stay out of this stuff and let your jinjibu do it for you. While it seems strange to my American mind to let human resources get so involved in my life, things work differently here.

I attempted apt. hunting last winter. My girlfriend (Japanese) came along to help me. I speak Japanese at level 3, but not nearly good enough for the kind of *!@$ I had to deal with.

Went to an agency with tons of places for rent. Gave them a budget of up to 120,000 for 1K. They came up with 2 choices - a business office with phones on the wall and a not bad apt overlooking a cemetary. The guy said he was sorry but alot of landlords don't want foreigners. The big excuse is the language barrier, but I haven't spoken to my current landlord since the day I met her and got the key. Even my girlfriend could not make headway because she was not my guarantor. I told the HR manager and in a day I had 3 decent choices.

God forbid you have a pet. Gaijin + pet is a near impossible proposition.

Bob

run-jp · Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2003 5:31 am Post subject:

I sympathise with you, for sure. u shouldnt think most Japanese are like these Oyas and estate agents. The classic oya/agent in Jpn is someone
too dumb or lazy for honest work. they want to lock customers in because they deal in inferior products (that so many flats are)
In Sapporo , for example, consider quality of "mansions" (condos) that ve been put up in the last 12 years or so. They are fairly well built, warm in winter, enough electrcal outlets, the latest have satellite/cable fixtures. Compare this to apts.
what ive seen, they are either modern concrete boxes for single men just for tv time and sleeping. ...or really old rooms no family or couple would want.
4 aparts I was in 5.5 years, none good. One the oya lady was so ancient and cheap,I had to paint some interior walls myself before moving in ( sure, it WAS cheap rent). Another, in a real low-life type bldg, we were burglarized at 8pm while my girl friend was asleep, her visa card and undies were taken!
The last place, the oya struted around all day dressed like a carpenter (but doing zero for us) there i had 4 or 5 elct. outlets total and wondered when the short would happen and fire would break out!!
So renters in general are s crewed in Japan in crowded area. Gaijin are more s crewd, blacks more so. Though, i have heard that fudosan, well some, are figuring out we are good clients (more money than your 20 y.o. J-types. Dont sweat the stupid people you find in japan or u ll go nus. It is best just to network, go drinking some, tell
gaijin, tell students " I need a place !!", with patience you ll find a flat Very Happy

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

From cafebleu:

Brooks · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 1369 Location: Sagamihara

let me give my experience.

I went with my boss in 2000 to look at a 2DK in Machida, which is in Tokyo.
He told the rental agent that he had remembered her. He had talked to her in 1996 about having a Canadian teacher rent the same place, and she had turned him down.
He asked her why she would accept me, an American.
Because the economy isn`t good, she said.

Later I went to another place in Sagamihara, and I took the place.
This rental place deals with my institution, so maybe they were doing my school a favor by letting me live there.

The other place I looked at sucked. It was right by the Odakyu train station. I said I didn`t want to live there because it would be too noisy.
Oh, just go into one of the tatami rooms and close the door and tell me if you hear anything, said the school official.
Obviously I could. I could hear the trains and the damn announcements that are always played at stations. How anyone can live right by a train station I don`t know.
I live 15 minutes away from my station, and it has relative quiet, except for the baby that cries or the dog that barks.

From what I hear, blacks definitely deal with more discrimination than whites do.