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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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 Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:09 pm Post subject: Three in one |
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Dear sheikh,
Well he's apparently tri-present, at least:
Location: UK/KSA/AFRICA
Could he be the Trinity, do you think? |
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trapezius
Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 1670
Location: Land of Culture of Death & Destruction
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| Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:00 am Post subject: |
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I hope those barbarians go to jail forever.
http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1§ion=0&article=106645
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Saudi Human Rights Official Slams Vice Cops in Yara Case
Raid Qusti, Arab News
RIYADH � The National Society for Human Rights (NSHR), Saudi Arabia�s non-governmental rights body, will address the Governorate of Riyadh regarding Yara, a 36-year-old Jeddah-based businesswoman who was apprehended by the religious police and thrown in Al-Malaz Prison on Monday.
Yara said she endured a humiliating and frightening hours-long ordeal that began with her arrest by a member of the Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice for having coffee with an unrelated man in a Starbucks cafe in Riyadh.
�We have visited Yara at home and took her official complaint,� NSHR member Al-Jawhara Al-Angari told Arab News yesterday. �The complaint will be sent to the main office in Riyadh where further notices from our part will be added. It will then be sent to the Governorate of Riyadh.�
Yara says she was forced to fingerprint two confessions and was strip-searched in the prison. She also said she was produced before a �legal sheikh� who sat behind a one-way glass window and told her she would go to hell for the moral crimes she had committed.
The incident occurred on the same day that Yakin Ert�rk, the special rapporteur of the United Nations Human Rights Council on Violence Against Women, arrived in the Kingdom on a 10-day visit.
A member of the religious police apprehended Yara for the moral crime of �khulwa� (a state of seclusion with an unrelated man). The woman�s colleague, a Syrian financial analyst, was also arrested and released the following day.
According to Al-Angari, several serious violations of human rights were apparent in this case. �First of all, Yara was not in a state of khulwa,� said Al-Angari. �She was in a public place where people were all around them,� said Al-Angari.
Yara told the NSHR that the commission member who arrested her was not accompanied by a police officer and that he didn�t provide any documentation, or even his name. He also prevented her from contacting relatives.
�She had relatives in Riyadh at the time whom she could have contacted,� said Al-Angari. �A relative should have come to be with her when she was being taken somewhere.�
After the commission member forced Yara to go with him in a taxi, she said that she was placed in a GMC parked in front of a local commission center.
This, said Al-Angari, is a direct violation of an Interior Ministry order that commission members are not to hold suspects but rather turn them over to proper authorities for investigation.
�The confiscation of her mobile and the refusal of the commission member to allow her to contact her husband or any other relative to come to her rescue was another violation,� Al-Angari said.
Another human rights violation was forcing Yara to fingerprint a confession under duress.
Having grown up in the US, Yara�s Arabic language skills are insufficient to have been able to comprehend what was written on the document she was compelled to sign.
�She cannot read Arabic,� Al-Angari said. �The commission member should have read to her what she was going to fingerprint. She had no idea what she was fingerprinting. She obliged in a state of panic.�
The NSHR official described the manner in which Yara was strip-searched in prison as �inhuman�.
�It was degrading to her, both mentally and physically. The fact that she was asked to remove her clothes like that implied she was a criminal,� she said.
The NSHR member said the rights body would urge the Governorate of Riyadh to drop all fingerprinted confession papers from Yara�s public file.
�We also will take note of the violations that had occurred in this case and notify the governorate about them. We further will ask that Yara be compensated for the damages she sustained,� she said. However, Yara�s case is not the first of its reported kind in the Kingdom. In 2003, the religious police apprehended a British woman in the capital from the Kingdom Center on the charge of �not covering up sufficiently� in public. The woman was forced to get into a taxi by a commission member. She was taken to one of their centers.
She later narrated to Arab News how three men grabbed her from behind and forced her to fingerprint a document in Arabic. She was then thrown in Al-Malaz Prison in a similar manner. Even though she was released at the intervention of the embassy, the woman suffered from serious psychological repercussions. Her husband told Arab News at that time that she refused to take off her abaya (the body veil) inside their house for three weeks after the incident. The couple eventually left the Kingdom. |
So apparently some people on here (those apparently without hormones), condone such treatment of women.
Kidnapping women, grabbing them from behind and strip-searching them... all in the name of Islam, and all ostentatiously to protect them and their honor!
Perhaps if something similar happened to such posters... they just might change their mind. Then again, apparently they lack hormones, so they still might say "I was breaking the law... I deserved to be kidnapped, manhandled, and strip-searched...."
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As for the original post, I think it should be changed to:
Some seem to think that mutawwas should be excused from obeying the law of the land.
Cuz the only ones breaking the law in that story are the mutawwa... actually, committing gross human rights violations, from any viewpoint--Islamic, moral, logical, human, UN, Saudi, whatever. |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:14 am Post subject: |
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Dear trapezius
"Without hormones??
"Hormone effects vary widely, but can include:
stimulation or inhibition of growth,
In puberty hormones can effect mood and mind
induction or suppression of apoptosis (programmed cell death)
activation or inhibition of the immune system
regulating metabolism
preparation for a new activity (e.g., fighting, fleeing, mating)
preparation for a new phase of life (e.g., puberty, caring for offspring, menopause)
controlling the reproductive cycle
In many cases, one hormone may regulate the production and release of other hormones
Many of the responses to hormone signals can be described as serving to regulate metabolic activity of an organ or tissue.
You lost me on that one.
So apparently some people on here... condone such treatment of women."
Um, who'd you have in mind? I mean, it's hard to tell on-line if someone's hormoneless or not.
I reread all the posts and maybe i missed it, but I didn't see anyone "condoning" such treatment.
But such treatment IS a fact of life in the Kingdom, and those who CHOOSE to go there had better both be aware of what they're getting themselves into and be prepared to face the possible consequences for violating the law there.
Regards,
John |
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trapezius
Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 1670
Location: Land of Culture of Death & Destruction
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| Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:34 am Post subject: |
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The hormones thing was in response to a particular poster. (watch him/her respond!)
As for the condoning, I don't feel like going through 5 pages of posts again, but I saw several posts where people indirectly condoned what happened to Yara. |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:41 am Post subject: |
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Dear trapezius,
condone: to regard or treat (something bad or blameworthy) as acceptable, forgivable, or harmless,
Well, maybe you interpret someone's saying (as I did in the previous post) that the law in Saudi isn't always what many of us in the West would consider right or fair, but it IS the law there.
And one thing anyone in TEFL ought to know is that when you choose to go to another country to live and work, you are as bound to obey their laws, agree with them or not, as much as you're bound to obey the laws of your own land.
I was there for 19 years (by the way, have you ever been to Saudi?), and while there, I broke the law on numerous occasions. But I was lucky; I never got caught. If I had been, I would have had no one to blame but myself for what happened to me.
Regards,
John |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:49 am Post subject: |
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Yawn (again). So, the Sheikh, like so many of our male posters, is far more interested in inventing life stories for the female posters than he is in arguing their points. So tell me something I didn't already know.
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| the Bogside or Derry |
Give the Sheikh a geography lesson!
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| So apparently some people on here (those apparently without hormones), condone such treatment of women. |
John already pointed out, as I did previously, that nobody here is condoning such treatment. If you can't figure out that acknowledging that certain laws exist is not at all the same thing as condoning such laws, then I don't think anything anyone can say will help you. You just seem to be spoiling for a fight, but perhaps you might be better off taking your latent aggression elsewhere. |
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