Job Discussion Forums

[STRANGERINPARADISE]

I have decided that I wish to live in Pattaya after only spending 9 days there. I'm 52 years old and it was my first holiday in 43 years. I went there because of what a lot of people would say are the wrong reasons. What have I to hide I'm shy and lonely, I've been a single father for 16 years and my son has stood on the edge of the nest flapped his wings and with a little nudge from me he is doing alright, I'm pleased to say(no regrets). I fell in love with the place and its people when I expected just to fall in love with just the ladies. I'm showing my age when I say I still remember standing for the national anthem at the end of a film with pride. I walk to work and in the last month I think I have seen at least 2 smiles. I do not have a degree and MOD EDIT I have no teaching experience BUT I have worked with youngsters and I find it really rewarding. I have a fairly extensive vocabulary my spelling is quite good and I know teaching in Pattaya is, I feel, going to be rewarding, as you will have to excuse the terminology here, as I get a buzz out of helping people. I have paid up for a 6 week Text and Talk course, every available moment over here I'm trying to get my head round grammar, which of course comes naturally to me when I speak but knowing it and teaching it is a different matter. The big questions are:
1) Will I be able to make a moderate living ?
2) Will I be able to eventually get a work permit?
3) Will I have to work so hard that like Jack I will be a dull boy(Hard work doesn't frighten me)
There are more but basically I'm asking for opinions on what you guys(the experts) think?
I really want to do this so much, say I'm a dreamer and don't do it and I'll be honest with you guys again and yes a grown man will cry. Thanks for any advice and input.

[Anda]

There are two ways I would advise you Mr. Civil Servant. You should be able to get up to three years credit for your work history and do a Uni course like below.

http://www.publicsectordelivery.com/


The other is do this course by distance education. You can get a certificate in Applied Linguistics to start off with and build on it latter.


I am only talking about one year of study to get the right paper work.



University of Southern Queensland, Toowoomba, Australia, Semester ...University of Southern Queensland in Toowoomba, Australia: detailed information ... Master of Applied Linguistics Master of Applied Linguistics (Honours) ...
www.semester-abroad.com/semester/australia/university_of_southern_queensland.htm - 34k -


In the long run a dodgy degree will catch you out. One other thing is that nearly all the ladies that have been working being friendly to us lot contact AIDS within two year in Thailand. In China you can buy a young woman for a wife for as little as $1,000 US from a poor region.

[Anda]

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[Kent F. Kruhoeffer]

With your attitude and desire, yes, I think you can make it work. Being a native speaker is still qualification #1, and I assume you're English, based on the location posted under your avatar. The Text-and-Talk Course will be a good introduction to the field and will get you thinking in the right direction. Yes, Pattaya is a fun town; I understand your enthusiasm. At the age of 50, you can qualify for a retirement visa - fyi - which is easy to get, provided you can document a certain amount of money in the bank; I think it's around 20,000 US or thereabouts. It would come in handy until you find a school or agent willing to sponsor a work permit. Good luck; keep us posted on your adventures.

[Nabby Adams]

To a fellow Grecian I can only wish all the best. Don't worry about the grammar as much as you'd think. A native speaker's role in English education is more to provide an enviroment where students can learn how to communicate effectively.
My only real advice would be though that don't just think of Pattaya when it comes to Thailand. The lifestyle that you, by the sounds of it, deserve is to be had all over Thailand. If you don't have much in the way of savings you may find that it is hard to make ends meet in Pattaya where you could struggle to get good work. If this is the case then branch out a bit and you'll find what you are looking for.

[Extraordinary Rendition]

Hey Anda, I resemble that civil servant remark !

OP, I'm too lazy to reply again so here is my post on another thread, if you're interested:

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=60128&highlight=

Some of the many advantages of Pattaya over other places in Thailand are how easy it is to get along only in English (it would take a while to speak any intelligible Thai, partly because of the tones), the number of fellow westerners with whom to commiserate (I can hear the insults now, but I met many fine expats in Pattaya, seriously!!!), the ease of getting around the town, the relatively inexpensive night life (and life in general) compared to many other places in Thailand like Samui, Phuket, etc., the ready availability of foreign goods, I could go on and on. In general, I like the feel of being in a western enclave.

Will it be hard work? Yes, at first. A lot will depend on your pesonality and personal make-up. You'll need to do a lot of class preparation at first, that will ease up until it becomes second nature, after a period of time that will depend on how you adapt to teaching a foreign language.

Will you eventually get a work permit? Without a degree? It's been done (see below), but the work permit/business visa (they go together) rules change frequently, and usually not to make it easier. Text-and-Talk should have already advised you about that but, of course, they want you to take the course. Check the forum links provided above, but I'll bet you find that nobody can tell you with certainty until you actually confront that Thai official who has the stamp. As has been said so often, so much is discretionary, based on your comportment. Although my personal experience/impression was that they were getting more consistent in their application of the rules over time. But, again, check the links above for the most recent experiences.

Excellent advice (above) on getting a degree. Also don't forget the British Open University. A dodgy degree seems like a terrible idea to me, too.

There are advertisements from time-to-time seeking teachers in the Thai primary and/or secondary schools, through a placement agency, without a degree (only a cert. like you're planning to get). If you stay long enough, you'll see them on ajarn.com or in the Bangkok Post. But the jobs would likely not be in Pattaya (probably Bangkok, as I recall). Depending on your personality, you may get a (not legal) job in Pattaya without a degree in a (somewhat dodgy) international school teaching kids. But you'll need that retirement visa to stay in Thailand legally, in that case.

Except at the good international schools, the pay is indeed low in Pattaya. If you have some income from the UK, though, you'll be fine. There's also private tutoring available; you'll learn the ropes on that by asking around. Just keep asking, most people, foreign and Thai, in Pattaya love to help newcomers.

I dunno about that AIDS comment. I saw too much evidence to the contrary, and the statistics I've seen seem to implicate the usual groups, IV drug users, etc.; at any rate, I wouldn't obsess about it. Just use common sense (no, that's not the brand name of a condom), would you sleep with a woman in the UK you met at a bar and not use a condom until you at least got to know her fairly well?

Yes, keep us posted on your adventures. I'm jealous. Wish I were starting again !

[Nabby Adams]

Hey Rendition, just curious as to what you would consider a good income level to live off in Pattaya? If you were teaching you obviously weren't one of the monied retirees, but by your other post you know how to enjoy yourself. So I'd guess that your spending habits would be similar to my own.

OP, what I ment by my post is that 30k a month would get you a rally nice laid back life eleswhere in Thailand and that you'd easily find a nice girlfriend. Of course you couldn't do the pay for play thing anywhere on that kind of inocme very much.

[laconic]

Given what has been published by the MoE (Teachers Council of Thailand) recently, the most painless route to becoming licensed as a teacher here is to begin the process with a legitimate Bachelor's degree. Tefl and similar certifications are not mentioned in the latest requirements or list of qualifications of the MoE. As a result, the worth of such certifications for purposes of acquiring licensing as a "legal" teacher en route to obtaining a Work Permit would be highly questionable IMHO.

If someone has a credible link to a Thai government source that says the opposite, please post it here.

Regarding retirement in Thailand, you don't necessarily have to have to show the money in the bank. You can also retire here at the proper age by being able to show a monthly pension, etc., over 65,000 baht. This requires certification at your Embassy if you are already in Thailand.

[Extraordinary Rendition]

Yeah, I didn't mention the monthly income from abroad Retirement visa option, thinking that if the OP had that kind of income, he wouldn't even be thinking about working ! You should be able to live pretty well in Pattaya on 65k/mo. . I dunno, maybe it's just me, but I don't like the Thai girls who aren't at all westernized and speak little or no English, one of the many reasons I prefer Pattaya. As for how much income is enough in Pattaya, I think the Thai government has it pegged about right at 65k. to be a little comfortable, although I think I could get by on 50-55k. I knew a bloke living on 35-40k, but he was walking the beach instead of going to the bars or having a steady girlfriend . What do you think about a realistic income requirement, Nabby?

For teaching at the language schools, you don't need a teacher's license. The good ones that pay decently (see ajarn.com to get an idea of the market, vacancies change frequently) will want at least a Bachelor's degree and TEFL certificate. The dodgier ones, probably will accept less, or maybe nothing at all (but you'll want that retirement visa). You don't need a teacher's license for university work, but most of us had MA's, with a few only having Bachelor's degrees. If your gonna teach primary or secondary (how I loathe the thought, but to each his or her own), I think the PP is right on target, with the caveats that:

1. There is always a high demand for teacher's, and I've seen the advertisement I mentioned in my other post at least once or twice a year.

2. There are always the dodgy international schools (again, you'll want that retirement visa to stay all year legally).

[Sadebugo]

One piece of advice not teaching-related, you may not like living in Pattaya longterm as much as vacationing there. Keep your options open and don't feel bad if you eventually decide you want to live somewhere else in Thailand or even another country. It's been known to happen.

Sadebugo
Djibouti, Horn of Africa
http://travldawrld.blogspot.com/

[BTSskytrain]

to begin with, the OP is suffering from PTD and will eventually come to his senses. this condition happens to thousands of Pattaya visitors every year. that said.....

i'm assuming that the OP will be relying on income from teaching and has no pension or the like on which to live. if this is indeed the case, then.....

dodgy intl. school in patts? where? there are only two, Regents and ISES and both are legit requiring Ed. degrees and certification. to even make mention to the OP that he might get a job at one of these schools is just plain stupid. the dodginess is with the shady english academies, not the intl. schools.

and where the hell is this guy going to make 65K in patts? the best language school in patts doesn't even pay 200 baht per hour. the public school salary in patts is 30,000 baht (and that's only if you can show some qualification, less if you can't). public school teaching in thailand is insane. the classes are huge, usually no support teacher, and the hours are as long as the pay is short. the OP has never taught before. he'd be lucky if the patts public schools offer him 25,000 baht per month even with the TEFL cert.

the only way to make a comfortable living and teaching in patts is to work work work and then work work work some more. earnings of anything less than 50,000 baht per month (and this is bare minimum) just won't cut it and to do this the OP is going to need a regular day gig with several private students on the side each evening. he'd be looking at 12 hour workdays and sure to burn out within a few months.

let's face it. the OP wants to live in patts for one reason and one reason only. cheap pu%&y, and there is certainly nothing wrong with that. i spend a few months every year in patts for the very same reason. however, the OP is kidding himself if he think he's going to be able to make enough $$$ to do this regularly. as many expats living in patts will tell you. vacationing in patts and living in patts are two entirely different balls of wax.

To the OP: Sorry to sound so negative sir but I cannot tell you how many guys have had your dream. The problem is really that the experience you had in Pattaya on vacation was fantasy and living and working in Pattaya as a teacher ain't no fantasy. This is exactly why you would be hard pressed to find many guys living and teaching in Pattaya. Trust me. I have a BA in education, am certified, and have several years of teaching experience overseas. A few years ago I gave the "living and teaching in Pattaya" idea a lot of thought. Spent a lot of time there talking with other expats, visited the language schools and the public schools, and basically came to the conclusion that if I couldn't make enough money to live comfortably AND monger, then it just wouldn't be worth it. At least not for me.

Can you work your ass and live on 30,000 - 40,000 baht monthly? YES!
Do you want to work your ass off and live on 30,000 - 40,000 monthly? That's a decision that only you can make.

[Extraordinary Rendition]

PP is right on target, but there are certainly "international" schools (or at least they like to call themselves that) in the Chonburi (province) area that were hiring anyone coming through the Thai "TEFL certificate" programs, as well as Philippinos, as fast as they could find them. Pay is low; turnover is high, I suppose. And undoubtedly for the reasons the PP mentioned in regard to the Thai government schools: huge classes, no support, horrid working conditions. As has been said in this thread: Get a degree. Unless you have income from the UK, the no degree route is fraught with substantial (insurmountable?) problems.

Keep in mind what was said about income. 65k is reasonably comfortable. 50-55k will likely get you by. Less will likely leave you struggling, and that would not be fun in "Fun City". Do you have some income from the UK? Are you willing to work long hours? Do you have the personality to keep private students amused? Can you meet the retirement visa bank balance (or income from abroad) requirements? These are the factors you must weigh...

[Pauleddy]

The OP is over 50 and it sounds like he has never taught. He has a lot of unrealistic expectations.

There is no way he will ever get a job at a famous international school like Regent's. They want 'younger' proper teachers with QTS.

Once he completes the CELTA (if it be such) then he will only just be starting out.

It would be easier to get a job in the sticks (boonies) where they have a smaller pool of possible applicants. I knew someone who was over 50 and had not even an O-level, let alone a CELTA--he taught in an upcountry state school and was fine, but I don't know how he got the job.

The OP is in the Thailand Honeymoon Phase. There are plenty of smiles, fake or not, and lots of available xxxxx. We all went thru that. I went thru it when I arrived in 2004. Pattaya is the Thai equivalent of Blackpool but more dangerous. There are Thai, Russian and British 'Mafias' there. Someone is murdered there almost every day. Go to pattayacitynews.com and check it out.

Please, take care.

PEd

[Extraordinary Rendition]

Pattaya dangerous? To one's sanity, perhaps. Physical danger? On the beach at 4:00 a.m., if you're really drunk! The poor bloke has a dream. It can be done, but see my most recent post before this. Get a degree, as has been said. Get a real cert., CELTA, or SIT, in Bangkok. Even so, with no income from the U.K., it would probably not lead to anything great in Pattaya. Maybe he'll have to settle for a decent job in Bangkok (with the degree and real cert.). What's he gonna do in the boonies, stare at the walls? Enjoy the ambiance? Pattaya will come later, perhaps. But telling this guy it's impossible is a disservice, as is telling him to go struggle in rural Thailand with no Thai language skills at all. There's far more to teaching in Thailand than the rugrats and hormone-driven teenagers at the "international schools" or government schools.

[NigerianWhisper]