Job Discussion Forums

[White Widow]

I just received a job offer from Huizhou University in Guangdong. Everything was going well until the end of the phone interview when I was that it was OK for me to arrive on a tourist visa and then get a work visa after I started working. I *know* this is not a good idea, so my question is: how *bad* an idea is it? Can I even get a work visa from within China, or would I have to go to Hong Kong and returm, or something like that? Is this a sure sign that they will try and rip me off in all sorts of other ways, too? Should I demand that they apply to register me as a FE and get an official letter of invitation, or just hope things work out? Your advice is greatly appreciated.

Also, what exactly is the process for getting a work visa? My understanding is that the school needs to apply with the local education ministry and have you registered as a foreign expert in order to get an official letter of invitation. This letter is necessary to get a work visa, correct?

Sincerely,
Aaron

[Roger]

This is standard knowledge and you can get an answer from the entry dealing with China jobs in general (I would refer you to there).
But anyway, your question has been asked; here is my reply:
Ask the uni whether they will upgrade your tourist visa. If not, form your own opinion.
Since they are a public institution of learning they should be able to, but may or may not be willing to do it.
Normally they take you to a clinic for a medical exam, then the medical report will be presented to the PSB, together with a signed contract, and the visa will be stamped in your passport within days.

I can shed some extra light on Huizhou: IT's a medium-sized town off the beaten path just a little northeast of Shenzhen. For a newcomer it's not a bad place, but I wouldn't want to teach in that city.

[naturegirl321]

I arrived on a Business Visa, F visa. And had it changed to a Z visa. Lots of other teachers I know had L visas, tourist visas and had them changed. NO problem, But it does depend on the guanxi of your school and the police.

[JamesD]

Some posts warn about the dangers of arriving on a tourist visa even though it is widely practiced. The danger comes in not having your visa upgraded in a timely manner. Many universities and some private schools have you get a tourist visa because it's 100 times easier for you and them.

Getting a tourist visa at home takes one day and requires you to fill out one simple form. Once you're in China the school can take you for your physical (which they should pay for) and do the paperwork with the PSB very quickly.

If you insist on the work visa before you arrive you will have to send diploma, passport scan, reference letters, resume, and (possibly) physical form signed by your doctor to the school in China. They will then have to get your invitation letter and send you a packet containing the invitation letter, school license scan, and their personal invitation. You then have to take all of this to the consulate and hope everything is in order to get the Z visa, different consulates require different forms. This also means that you have to pay for the physical at western prices and 95 times out of 100 you will have to have another physical once you arrive in China. (Most don't trust western doctors.)

Why go through the hassle? Let the school deal with it here. If they don't begin the process immediately then you should remind them that it's necessary to make you a legal worker and you will be unable to teach at least until they start the paperwork. The process may take a week or so but as long as things are rolling you are ok and can teach while the PSB is processing your visa.

Universities are usually pretty good about following the rules so from what you've said I really wouldn't worry too much.

[Crippler]

You can get everything done in country and a lot cheaper. I am getting my Z-Visa extended and getting multiple entries cheaper than it cost me for a single entry from Houston.

[White Widow]

Thanks everybody. So the vibe I get is that it *is* ok to arrive on a tourist visa and then get the Z visa soon after I start working. The school isn't just trying to screw me. They sounded very legit, but I'm not in a good position to know. Besides, my options are either Huizhou University or AES in Dailan/Xi'an. From everything I've heard, the University job is a better choice, but I have no direct experience with either.

[shenyanggerry]

FYI, I'm about to go to China for the second time. Neither time was a medical requested in order to get my 'Z' visa. I expect that I will again be given a medical in Shenyang. Incidentally, I'm 60 and if anyone should be given a medical before entering the country, it's someone of my age.

[arioch36]

I have always gotten my z-visa before coming, and it is just as easy as getting any other visa. Yes, I had to e-mail a copy of my diploma to my school. You can get your z-visa same day, the school does have to fax your invitation letter first. It no longer takes guanxi to do this. You are not supposed to need your medical (current guidelines) to get your z-visa.

I use a ticket agency in New York City (an office with a couple Chinese a Korean and a Japanese). I buy my ticket from them for a pretty decent price, and they will get my visa for me...no charge. Doesn't get any easier.

Yes, many schools really will get you your z-visa after you arrive. Many schools, including some colleges, will lie through their teeth. Other coleges (such as my current school) have FAO's that are too busy, to incompetent, or both, to take care of these matters correctly.

Why risk it? I don't understand. Listen to the people who feel most screwed in China, and a lot of them didn't get their z-visa first.


Getting a z-visa before coming to China is EXTREMELY easy.

[MyTurnNow]

Oh my God!
If those are your choices, then DEFINITELY go with the university. You'll eventually find that you really do have a lot more choices here.....

I think Arioch's points are valid, and the things he warns you of do indeed happen. But many schools will be much more grateful to have you than you may suspect, and IMHO the odds of you encountering problems with a Z visa you've been contractually promised are reasonably small.

If it helps, ask the school if they will send you the required documents and let you get the Z at home first, and see what they say.
It may turn out that this school has really good guanxi with the local bureaucrats, and it's easier and cheaper for them to handle it locally.
It's also possible that the school simply wants to see you there in person before they go to the expense of getting you a Z visa. Yes, many of the schools here are very flaky....but then so are many of the people who apply for jobs here. The no-show rate can be pretty high.

MT

[arioch36]

I do agree that the no shows is a legitamite reason for the school to wait until you arrive, and then get your z-visa. I personally don't know how great of a problem "no-show" foreign teachers are. They exist, most scools I personally know haven't had a problem, but it is a real reason for the school to ask you to come on a tourist visa first.

Still, I would insist on doing it the right way. Invitation letter, z-visa before leaving.

[Roger]

Actually, hiring a total stranger through the Internet or by mail is highly risky for the school - how do they know you are suitable (their belief in those sacrosanct certs should warn you then and there!); do you fit into their social body???
Because of these considerations, many school hesitate and prefer to see you knock on their door; then you will be taken on probation (though it won't ssay so in your contract). After a month or so, they usually go through the bureaucratic motions.
If your students have an overwhelmingly negative opinion on you, it means they don't care about your competence but about your personal chemistry with their charges, and you will have to pack up and find a job elsewhere - if that's possible under the circumstances!

[MyTurnNow]

Arioch,
I've been in a position to hire teachers in 2 different places. The no-show rate can be quite high! Things go along well, an offer is extended and accepted, you start making ready, and then BAM!: "My boyfriend's father died" or "I don't have enough cold-weather clothing yet" or "I can't get my distemper shots until next month" or just "I decided to go somewhere else. Thanks though!". Some reasons seem genuine, some people get cold feet when push comes to shove, and some people are just 'holes.

I came to regard these last-minute shocks as bullets dodged. But I never considered a position filled until I shook the teacher's hand at the airport.

MT

[NumberOneSon]

[White Widow]

Well, I feel pretty ok about this. The school has asked for all my documents (passport, dimplomas, references), checked up on my refs and has repreatedly asked me to come a few days before I start teaching to take care of the medical check and the visa upgrade.

On a side note, does anyone know when the Chinese semester ends?

[davis]

You best hurry if you want to begin the new semester. The first semester has ended and the next one begins on Feb. 8th or soon after.