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sarliz · Joined: 22 Feb 2006 Posts: 198 Location: Jalisco

Have you all heard that "Baby Te Quiero...whoh...whoh..." song that they play constantly on the radio and as the background music about 80% of commercials on tv? At least here in Jalisco? And that for heaven only knows what reason, the guy who sings it's name is "Nigga"? He's got me in a moral quandry.
In one of my classes, the kids' one, we were learning to introduce people, and I had the kids (all 8-12 year-olds, for context) choose a new, famous person identity for themselves, and then go around introducing each other to their famous friend. They get a kick out of saying "This is my friend, Shakira!" "Oh, nice to meet you, Spiderman," etc., and all is going swimmingly until I hear "This is my friend, (The Horrible N-Word That Makes Me Feel A Little Physically Ill To Hear)".

Now, I know that these kids have no clue as to what is the socio-historical baggage that this word has in the US, but it makes me feel, like I said, nauseous to hear. Where I come from, nobody says the N-Word, unless you're Kanye West or maybe singing along to a Kanye West song. To me, it's a Bad Word, but here, I just don't know. Part of me feels like I should do a diversity seminar for my incredibly not-diverse class, and explain how the people in the US have historically had the tendency to invent horrible words to use against people different than themselves, but that we shouldn't use these words becuase they're very hurtful, etc. Then on the other hand, this is a-whole-nother culture here we're talking about. I just don't know.

So, what do you guys think? Should I be dusting off my soapbox or keeping my big pc gringa trap shut?

Guy Courchesne · Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City

Tough one...I've come across this too. Mexican kids pick up English via pop culture, but may miss the context. It might be worth a historical lesson or a bit of grounding on how the word and expressions have changed over time.

dixie · Joined: 23 Apr 2006 Posts: 644 Location: D.F

I have had the same experience with both fourth graders and prepa kids. I think it�s likely a combo of pop culture and simple translation. I have had prepa kids (typically girls) use the word in essays when they discuss issues of race, or are talking about black characters in literature.

With both age groups I have simply told them that in English that is not a word to use, as it is considered to be extremely rude. I tell them the historical context (limited, but so they have a better understanding), and that is that. If they "slip up" and use it again, I simply remind them again.

No need to give a big speech on it, but I certainly think that it is worth explaining.

guatetaliana · Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:49 am Post subject:

I definitely would explain the reason why this is not an appropriate thing to say. Due to the racial tensions in the US, it is really important for any of our students who may eventually visit to know the realities. Honestly, they could put themselves in danger by unwittingly using words or slurs that are offensive in the US. Our students are most likely learning English for potential interactions they might have in the US, so they definitely need to know, no matter how young.

I've found that talking about racial discrimination is sometimes difficult for our Mexican English students, as they generally come from a background of more privilege, and therefore less of a sense of the injustice around them. To them, discrimination is just a fact of life. Many Mexicans use "indio" in a derogatory way to refer those of more indigenous heritage or just those who are of a lower class. So this concept is not totally foreign to them. I think it's always good to explore the discrimination that is found in the language we use, to be aware of just how powerful it is.

P.S. The artist "Nigga" is actually known as "DJ Flex" in the US due to the controversial nature of his name. Weird, huh?

Linda T. · Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Posts: 49 Location: California

Although I'm here in the states (so am not familiar with the song you mentioned), your posting was PERFECT timing for me. I'm finishing up my BA in communication here in California before, hopefully, returning to Mexico (where I got my TEFL certificate) to teach EFL. I just turned in a term paper about how I believe that the best way to teach a foreign language is to teach it within the context of the culture where it is used. Not in terms of trying to convince others that the ways of this culture are "THE" way, but just as an adjunct to understanding the language better. I am also a spanish student here and find that it's easier for me to learn Spanish if I try to immerse myself in the Spanish culture and try to perceive difference between Spanish and English in terms of difference between the Spanish culture and American culture.

When I teach ESL to foreign students from around the world here during the summer, I often do a lesson on "politically correct" terms and a little bit of the history behind them and how what is politically correct in one generation, is not necessarily politically correct in the next.

You could even incorporate it into a lesson about alternative non-sexist terms (like police officer for police man etc. . . . maybe even make a little game out of it to see who can come up with the alternate term first).

Sometimes I think that by making TOO big of a deal over a word, we give it more power than it deserves (does that make sense?), but . . . since you ARE teaching them English . . . I think it's really important for them to know the various contexts within which terms take on different meanings.

Anyway . . . sorry to go on and on, but I think you could have fun with a lesson like that and take it in any direction which fits in best with what your students are learning or most interested in right now.

Best of luck . . . I'd be interested in knowing what you decide to do.

Linda

ls650 · Joined: 10 May 2003 Posts: 3484 Location: British Columbia

Just tell them that in your home country, that word is a grosero and is muy maleducado. Even an 8-year old will understand that... of course, they may just want to use that word all the more then! Wink

debmport · Joined: 10 Nov 2007 Posts: 34 Location: Guadalaholla

God I hate that song. Seems like a guy with a name like 'Nigga' would be a little more hardcore. DJ Flex probably doesn't know what the word means either.

This has come up before in many classes, and I have found myself lecturing on the Civil War several times in an attempt to illustrate the origins of the word. Being from GA, this has always been an interesting subject for me. I don't know if it is a good idea to go into depth about this but it usually makes for an interesting conversation and gets them talking.

I am in agreement with everyone else here though. I always stress that this word is beyond offensive and that we do not use it.

guty · Joined: 10 Apr 2003 Posts: 365 Location: on holiday

thelmadatter · Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:07 pm Post subject: the n word

I dont think we could ever get someone who did not grow up in the States to appreciate or think about the "N" word the way that we do. There is just no way we could "impose" such a belief on them. No more so than Jesse Jackson's attempt to shame Mexico over Memin Pinguin some years back worked.

Of course we should tell them not to do it if they are in the States but I dont think theyll ever really "get it" until and unless they use that word inappropriately there.

GueroPaz · Joined: 07 Sep 2007 Posts: 216 Location: Thailand or Mexico

Today in Thailand, I had a young student ask me, as a favor for a friend of his, the exchange rate between Thai baht and the currency of Israel. His friend has a boyfriend who thinks the Israeli is an ARAB! Here in Thailand last year, an entire non-English secondary school dressed up as NAZIS, ignorant of the Holocaust!

I wonder how many Mexican students know how offensive indio is to some ind�genas.

But, unless we are teaching several subjects, there just is not time enough to cover all of political correctness. When the curse word appears, we can say that is very bad. My Christian students in international school ask me what the F word is, yet their culture can handle feces and urine in normal conversation without batting an eye.

notamiss · Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 4:43 pm Post subject:

For me it helps to turn the situation around and think of the words that seemed harmless to me until my attention was drawn to how volatile they are to Mexicans.

Did you ever get sternly corrected the first time you used "stupid" or "est�pido" in a conversation with a Mexican? I did.

How long did it take you before you began to not just recognize, but feel "unhappy" and "unfortunate" (I'm referring to the Spanish words, of course) to be very strong and offensive words.

Even though these words aren't racially linked, there is some parallel because these are words that do not seem offensive until it's explained to us; in fact the first time someone tells us not to use them we might not take it seriously. What did it take to convince us?

jfurgers · Joined: 18 Sep 2005 Posts: 442 Location: Mexico City

The last time I was in DF (December 06), I was at the bus station when I noticed a Mexican in the line next to me was wearing a jacket with the swastika on it. I wasn't sure if he was going to the States and he left before we had time to ask him.
If he were to be seen wearing that ANYWHERE in the States, his time on earth would be very short. A black person or a Jew would beat someone like that to death. No questions asked.
My wife told me that that symbol isn't related to the holocaust in Mexico as it is in the States. She said it's just another symbol of the cross. Supposedly there are (or were) seven different symbols for the cross and Hitler used the one that is now forever linked to WWII.
I'm not sure how accuate that is but one needs to know these things before coming to the States. I tell my students (adults) all of the time not to say the N word. Blacks can say it to and about each other, but no one else can. It's stupid to me that they hate the word so much yet use it for each other.
This makes for good disscussions in my conversation classes. Political correctness is another great topic the Mexicans and Asians like to discuss.
If I werre teaching adults in Mexico and some of them were planning to visit or live in the States, I would for sure go over things like this with them.

Guy Courchesne · Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City

dixie · Joined: 23 Apr 2006 Posts: 644 Location: D.F

jfurgers · Joined: 18 Sep 2005 Posts: 442 Location: Mexico City

I didn't think it was accurate either. He may not have realized how dangerous it would be to wear that in the States. Whenever the students talk about the N word and political correctness, I bring up what the Germans used to call themselves during WWII.
The master race. None of my students have ever heard of that. Some students from Mexico ask me if they can say black like they do in Spanish. I think it's negro? Not sure how they spell it in Spanish but I know what they mean when I hear it. I say it should be no problem but some have told me people get offended when they hear them say that.
I tell them to explain that that is how it's pronounced in Spanish.

Most of my students (and I agree with them) tell me that there is more freedom of expression in Mexico than the States. I have to agree. People have to watch everything they say anymore in the States. can't wait to get to Mexico!!

I remember how everyone in Mexico City used to tell me, never say or call anyone Indio. It always helps to know some things about a country before one goes. How not to offend people.