Job Discussion Forums

[spiral78]

Wildchild, what I'm trying to say is that if X North American wants to go to Spain to teach English, it's not necessary to have reached X proficiency in SPANISH before going. Did you think I meant in English

And, mdk, it's not the case that everyone who lands in Spain (or Russia) without prior skill in Spanish (or Russian)is also going there to escape from some jam in his/her home country.

Sure, there are plenty of losers floating around out there - but not every newbie who is fluent only in English upon arrival is among them.

I absolutely agree with you that anyone who is living in a foreign country and makes no effort to learn the local language is rude at best, and incompetent at worst.

I also agree that having some fluency in the language of the country where you want to teach is IDEAL - but it is not NECESSARY. And a lack of it doesn't indicate that the newbie is necessarily a loser.

[wildchild]

[spiral78]

I doubt it.

It's still entirely desirable to learn some Spanish before going to Spain (or LA, of course). I'm just taking exception to the idea that it's 100% necessary before you go; and that if you're not functional in the language before you arrive, you're going to crash and burn when you get there.

[mdk]

Then perhaps if I refine MDK�s argument (since I know him very well) it may be less controversial.

While the need to have spent time learning the native language before going off to [wherever] is a subject of controversy - there is absolutely no doubt that a prospective "newbie" must have minimally the same commitment as somebody who would take six months to a year to prepare.

That being the case, unless you are the prey in a Sadie Hawkins race.....

[spiral78]

Off the topic of Spain, but still (sigh) on the topic of local language knowledge:

I've been working with newbies to the Czech Rep for almost exactly 10 years now. Czech is said to be the most difficult slavic language for anglophones to learn (officially tougher than Russian) and it's only spoken by about 10 million Czechs (and Slovaks understand, so you can add some numbers to that).

99% of newbies arrive in Prague without more than a couple of words in Czech. And there are literally thousands of them yearly - teaching is a huge industry here. Over their first contract year, these newbies perform all over the scale, from abysmally to star-quality, with most, obviously, somewhere in between. Quite honestly, they don't really need Czech to function in Prague - it's more often needed in smaller cities or for travel.

I would speculate that INTEREST in learning the local language might be a general predictor of success overall. It would be interesting to study this.

But expecting newbs to be functional before arrival is unrealistic and unnecessary.

[spiral78]

Sorry, mdk, we may be sort of on the same page now - but I don't understand your point about 'minimally the same commitment as someone who took six months to a year to prepare."

Are you suggesting that a newb is going to have to spend X number of hours in his/her first year somewhere studying the local language?

And I've no idea of what a Sadie Hawkins race may be. You're full of strange and archaic metaphors (which may sometimes obscure your meaning, at least for me). Back when you were a language teacher, did you use these in class??!!

[Moore]

Having taught in France and Spain with a decent command of the language, and in Asia with a total lack of the local language I'd have to say that it is a slight advantage for a teacher in that it allows you to get through otherwise time consuming explanations to beginners very quickly and move on to the important stuff.

That said, it is very much a double edged sword as I have witnessed far too many teachers over using the local language unnecessarily (not sure why: to get a bit of free practice in themselves, to show off, or just impatient?) which results in the students getting into the habit of being able to ask 'how do you say this?' in the local language whenever they are missing vocabulary and never becoming self sufficient when facing non-local language speakers.

When used extremely sparingly it allows you to do translation exercises with higher level students so they get to practice local language to English language writing exercises. This gives the local-language teacher a slight advantage over other teachers who don't speak it, but it is minimal.

Also, there is the advantage of understanding the structure of the local language which allows you to recognize the problems that the students are experiencing as you experienced them 'coming the other way'. There is also the feeling of empathy that you get with the frustrations of the language learner.

Anyway, am going way off topic here. The original question was whether a total lack of the local language would hamper life: the main one I found when I arrived here 5 years ago with zero Spanish was renting a flat as many landlords are older with no knowledge of English. Obviously there is also the problem of private students who don't speak English (and therefore need classes) and parents of kids who want to arrange classes for them.

As I have often said, if you are not sure about smaller cities, you can always come to Madrid where there is a ton of work and you can definitely get by in very broken Spanish until you get your level up and then venture out to the provinces.


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[Nicky_McG]

Go to Madrid, Barcelona or Valencia and you won't have to worry about anything. You don't need to speak any Spanish before you come (ok maybe a phrasebook will help). Funnily enough there are a lot of Spanish people here who already speak English (especially in the big cities) so you won't be lost. You can also make good money if you choose your employer wisely and avoid official looking schools like International House (a lot of preparation for not so much money) and although a CELTA is helpful it is certainly not essential (and a complete ripoff). I wouldn't listen to certain people on this forum who give the impression that coming to Spain and teaching English is in any way difficult...I did it with no Spanish starting in october 2006 and I am just fine. (having worked for IH and left to go to a "less professional" school for a lot more money..)
I don't know much about other cities (apart from those mentioned) but from my friends it is fairly easy to get a job anywhere here.

[decgallen]

a heated debate!!

my opinion from travelling abroad is thus:

why are all English people so conplacent when they travel to foreign countries. why is it that when we ask for directions in Malaga we get so pissed off when the old spanish woman doesn't understand what it is we are saying!

why is it in Phuket we get all disgruntled when the man behind the bar can't undersrtand we want to pay the bill seperatly????

this is probably why english, irish, american people have got such a bad image pretty much everywhere i have been on holidays. we just expect to click our fingers, can we have the bill please yadda yadda and believe that every other person in the non english speaking world to whip out their own phrase book and translate in their own home.

we don't make an effort for french people coming to dubin or germans coming to london (for the most part) so do we expect the opposite in return?

it is my upmost ambition to learn spanish or whatever native tongue i experince on my travels. it would be very ignorant and hugely hypocritical of me to assume that while the people that i teach make a massive effort to learn my lanuage i should neglect even to learn the basics of theirs.

[spiral78]

Nobody disagrees with the many values of language learning.
We're not debating how impolite it would be to move somewhere and make no effort to learn the local language.

The debate is simply whether you HAVE TO be functional in the language BEFORE you go there to be a successful English teacher.

The concensus is clearly 'NO.'

[jonniboy]

[spiral78]

I wouldn't argue that in your situation, very basic skills in Latvian are enough. It would be different if you planned to stay long-term.

You're also in the category of language teachers who have also learned languages (Spanish, in your case , plus you've made at least some effort at Latvian).

[travellingscot]

Can I drag this topic up again without re-opening old wounds and add a couple of comments which nobody else has ?
I arrived in Spain with very little Spanish and found work, my employer located an apartment near by and I started to live in a town of around 15,000 people mostly Spanish but also "cheap labour" from Russia and Eastern Europe [Oh yes and many illegal North Africans].
I shopped in Mercadona so didn't need Spanish for that, but it helped at the weekly market where fresh produce was rather cheap.
The main advantage I found to speaking or at least understanding the local language [I imagine this applies in most countries] is that the teacher can tell when the students, especially children, are not paying attention. I had no end of trouble until I began to tell the students in English what they were talking about when they were "Discussing the lesson" heatedly. Perhaps because it was a smaller town and they had all grown up together, that after spending several hours apart in different classes or schools they tried to spend most of their English class catching up on gossip.
As I was there with my wife then I didn't need all the social side that perhaps you younger single people do [!] so lack of Spanish in the beginning was not the huge problem for me that it might be for others.
Another point which touches on your previous "arguments" is that in theory,and in tesol/celta courses, it is possible and sometimes preferable to know nothing of the local language thus forcing students to speak English. In my limited experience of different countries, only with really dedicated students is this possible, even though the British Council appear to swear by this system.