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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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 Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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Dear naturegirl,
But you know - I've been thinking. If you changed the subject in the noun clause:
"I suggest that you went to the cinema."
it might work. Here's the context: a police detective is interrogating a suspect whose alibi he disbelieves. The suspect has claimed that he was at home and therefore couldn't have murdered the victim in the cinema. So, the detective says:
"You were not at home Mr. Smith. I suggest that you went to the cinema, sat down next to the victim and fatally stabbed him."
Regards,
John |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| johnslat wrote: |
Dear naturegirl,
But you know - I've been thinking. If you changed the subject in the noun clause:
"I suggest that you went to the cinema."
it might work. Here's the context: a police detective is interrogating a suspect whose alibi he disbelieves. The suspect has claimed that he was at home and therefore couldn't have murdered the victim in the cinema. So, the detective says:
" You were not at home Mr. Smith. I suggest that you went to the cinema, sat down next to the victim and fatally stabbed him."
Regards,
John |
THAT must be it. I?m now teaching primary school and teaching grammar is nixed at my school. THanks  |
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MO39
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 1970
Location: El ombligo de la Rep�blica Mexicana
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| Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| I don't get it either. That's English for you. |
Would you give that kind of explanation to your students? |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| MO39 wrote: |
| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| I don't get it either. That's English for you. |
Would you give that kind of explanation to your students? |
Of course not. I'd just explain that English has lots of rules and just as many exceptions. And for younger students, I'd probably just say, beucase that's the way it is. |
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guty
Joined: 10 Apr 2003
Posts: 365
Location: on holiday
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| Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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The closest use of the subjunctive I can think of to Naturegirl's use is
I think (that) it's time we left.
I don't know whether either the usage, or any explanation of it, are of much use to primary learners though. |
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MO39
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 1970
Location: El ombligo de la Rep�blica Mexicana
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| Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| naturegirl321 wrote: |
Suggest is great.
I suggest we go to the cinema.
I suggest we went to the cinema.
I suggest going to the cinema. |
Where did you find your second example? |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| from my head, I got confused. SHoudl be should plus the base. Everyone makes mistakes. |
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guty
Joined: 10 Apr 2003
Posts: 365
Location: on holiday
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| Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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The closest use of the subjunctive I can think of to Naturegirl's use is
I think (that) it's time we left.
I don't know whether either the usage, or any explanation of it, are of much use to primary learners though. |
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MO39
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 1970
Location: El ombligo de la Rep�blica Mexicana
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| Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| from my head, I got confused. SHoudl be should plus the base. Everyone makes mistakes. |
Of course, we do. I was just concerned that you'd found it in a book, where there's less leeway for mistakes.
Last edited by MO39 on Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ChrisV
Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 42
Location: Cambridge, UK
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 10:05 am Post subject: |
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RE: Subjunctive and Imperative
The two are closely related. The subjunctive usually implies the subject of the embedded clause (the one after 'that') is under some sort of compulsion/obligation/necessity with regard to the verb in the embedded clause, or that they are under the power/influence/desire of another entity with regard to the verb. Consider:
It is essential that you dress well when you give a presentation.
I recommend that you not go.
The bureau requires that you turn in your badge and weapon immediately.
In this respect, there's a strong connection to the imperative, in which the speaker obviously believes or desires the implied subject of the clause (the one receiving the �command�) to be under compulsion. |
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SueH
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 1022
Location: Northern Italy
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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A: Groan.....where did we go last night, The Joiners wasn't it.
B: I suggest we went to The Osborne.
C: I suggest we went to The Hobbit in Bevois Valley....
NO, it doesn't sound right, does it? |
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ChrisV
Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 42
Location: Cambridge, UK
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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| SueH wrote: |
A: Groan.....where did we go last night, The Joiners wasn't it.
B: I suggest we went to The Osborne.
C: I suggest we went to The Hobbit in Bevois Valley....
NO, it doesn't sound right, does it? |
You poor thing; you're from Southampton. Or perhaps you were lucky and you just went to uni here...
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SueH
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 1022
Location: Northern Italy
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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Lucky in one way - Uni... many, many years ago. But for my pains I _am_ a Saints supporter.
PS Any summer work going? |
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gaijinalways
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 2279
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:52 am Post subject: |
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| 'I think that we went' sounds rather more natural than 'I suggest we went'. I can't imagine a N. American ever using 'suggest' in this manner. |
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Chancellor
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 1337
Location: Ji'an, China - if you're willing to send me cigars, I accept donations :)
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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| gaijinalways wrote: |
| 'I think that we went' sounds rather more natural than 'I suggest we went'. I can't imagine a N. American ever using 'suggest' in this manner. |
Many of us North Americans would have reduced it down to "I think we went" and I've never heard a North American use "suggest" in this way; not that I've actually heard all North Americans... |
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