Job Discussion Forums

[wildphelps]

I know this is an atypical question for this forum (a language use question as opposed to social commentary), but it does affect my job, so here goes...

I have increasingly come across the use of "what is more" by my students as a discourse marker (as in "A good friend is loyal. What is more, a good friend is honest.") in their writing. This discourse marker seems to me to be a direct translation from the Polish (co wiecej), and as such seems awkward to me. A 'Net and dictionary search for "what is more" has turned up only one entry (online at "The Free Dictionary") in English, though "co wiecej" does get translated in bilingual dictionaries as "what's more". "What's more" does seem to be more salient as a discourse marker (not much more), but then we get into issues of using contractions in formal academic writing (my students are all highly advanced). I did see "What is more" in a MacMillan Matura textbook, but that was mainly prepared for Poles by Poles (not that they cannot be trusted - they can).

So I thought I would ask other forum members what they think. We all come from different educational and linguisitc backgrounds, and even though "What is more" isn't a part of my active vocabulary, maybe others do use it. Is it more common in British/Irish/Canadian/Indian/Australian English than in my dialect (Midwest American)? Any comments would be appreciated.

[simon_porter00]

Of the many and repeated problems that i come across this is a first for me. "What is more" suggests adding something extra to a previous statement as a linking expression or/and something with even more emphasis or importance then the statement it's following.

I can't see the problem of it being used in written work although it'd be more often used in speech. If it's a case of repitition, simply warn them against it.

Those are my thoughts, be they right or wrong. I'm English BTW, in case you were wondering who was replying.

[spiral78]

As an 'older' North American, I can say that I see 'what is more' (not the contraction) as perfectly acceptable in formal written language.

For whatever little this might be worth! But I do teach academic writing at very advanced levels in both Europe and N. America, and have done so for the past 7 years...

At least, for me, I would certainly not mark down for this.

My granny would certainly have said it. My parents might. And I actually think that even I would

I speak functional Czech, which is at least in the same language group as Polish, and it is likely a translation. But it migrated to N. America, I believe...

[wildphelps]

Thanks for the responses. It hadn't crossed my mind that it might be a generational preference. I might be weird, but I like discussing such things (I was one of the few who really enjoyed our grammar course and syntax course in grad school).

A few years ago students and I went round and round trying to figure out why you can say "The Devil made me do it" but you cannot say "The God made me do it". I left students with a very unsatisfying "articles are so tricky".

Anyone know of a forum where such language things are discussed?

Once again, thanks for the responses

[Richfilth]

Not a forum, but a blog that should be mandatory reading for those in the EFL profession, especially the prescriptivists:

http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/

[dynow]

[Richfilth]

Dynow, I'd suggest your second point is nonsense because anyone who cares about whether or not there's an article before God (yes, Jehovah's Witnesses, I'm looking at you) is probably going to suggest that there is only One True God as well, and all others are non-existant and therefore irrelevant.

To the OP's point, part of the explanation comes from the translation of God from Greek; Greek grammar only has one type of article, and words either have it or don't. "God" doesn't, so it isn't used in translations of the Bible, while, as dynow pointed out, "the devil" is not a fixed idea, like Satan or Lucifer or any of it's other personifications, and is deserving of an article under Greek grammar rules and subsequent English translations.

If, however, you were pantheistic, you'd be more than entitled to say "The Gods made me do it."

[wildphelps]

Even though I already knew it, it wasn't a bunch of nonsense. Again thanks for the posts and the link.