Job Discussion Forums

[odhorsudhapan]

Can Indians be considered as native speakers of English if they have English medium schooling background and/or degree in English?

[spiral78]

And accent and pronunciation within the neutral range, yes.

I've had students from India who have spoken English all their lives, whose accents and pronunciation were far out of the neutral range, so that North Americans and Brits couldn't readily understand their speech.
They can't be considered as native speaker teachers...


That said, I must also say that I've known North Americans with very strong regional accents who failed teacher training courses, because, again, their accent and pronunciation was far out of the neutral range. One that comes particularly to mind was a candidate from the New Orleans area. Very nice guy, well-educated, but his speech was so far from standard that there was no way we could certify him and send him into the world as a teacher.

[Glenski]

spiral,
I've had conversations with Brits and fellow Americans who spoke "out of the neutral range" so far that I couldn't understand them, either. Sorry, I don't agree with your definition.

[blackmagicABC]

This question is a lot trickier than it appears.
I am not sure if there is an official definition of a native speaker. In my opinion it would be someone who has learned English by either growing up with native English speaking parents in a non-native English speaking country or with non-English speaking parents in an English speaking country and thus acquired English as their First language. Obviously if both conditions are present the person would also be a native speaker. Those conditions being met the person further has to use English as his main language of thinking and be understandable to the majority of native English speakers.
Does a native speaker necesarrily qualify as a teacher. Well, obviously no. Can a non-native speaker be a very good English teacher? Obviously yes.

What exactly is the scope of your question?
If you are asking whether you would be able to teach English then certainly there are some educational factors you should also consider. You don't automatically become an English teacher if you are considered a native speaker.
If you are purely asking the question to find out whether you should be considered a native speaker, then considering you did not grow up in an English speaking country and your parents are more than likely not native speakers I would say no, but that is just according to my own definition.
I don't really understand why it should be such a big deal. I would much rather hire a teacher who is understandable and a good educator before I would hire someone from Nigeria where English is an official language. I also find that people who understand the difficulties associated with learning a second language are often better at teaching it than those who have no idea.
Again I am not sure of the scope of your question.

[TheLongWayHome]

[johnslat]

I think a "native speaker" of English would be defined as someone who has spoken that language since earliest childhood.

But, as mentioned above, it IS tricky:

"One can have two or more native languages, thus being a native bilingual or indeed multilingual. The order in which these languages are learned is not necessarily the order of proficiency. For instance, a French-speaking couple might have a daughter who learned French first, then English; but if she grew up in the United States, she is likely to become more proficient in English."

"Definition based on origin: the language(s) one learned first (the language(s) in which one has established the first long-lasting verbal contacts).
Definition based on internal identification: the language(s) one identifies with/as a native speaker of;
Definition based on external identification: the language(s) one is identified with/as a native speaker of, by others.
Definition based on competence: the language(s) one knows best.
Definition based on function: the language(s) one uses most."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_language

This link leads to an interesting article:

http://neptune.spaceports.com/~words/native.html


Regards,
John

[spiral78]

Glenski, I said the same thing - I must also say that I've known North Americans with very strong regional accents who failed teacher training courses,

and of course the same thing applies to Brits and Australians and other native speakers!

I still think that there's a discernable range of relatively neutral native speaker accents and pronunciation that qualify one to teach the language.

[TheLongWayHome]

Your ear will adjust to any variation of accent in your native languge. It may take some time, kind of like tuning a radio to a different frequency.

Indian English I think, falls into a grey area as a lot of its nuances come from L1 interference though it is classed as a variety of English.

Some students will have no trouble with accents, some may not even realise and some will swear they understand one better than another. A school may ask you to 'clean up' your accent a little and probably won't allow for the 'tuning in' process.

Let's not forget that some variations of Indian English are incredibly clear and beautifully spoken.

[Stephen Jones]

The matter is tricky. The census gives a grand total of 187,000 native speakers of English in India. The number of people who claim to be bilingual in English and their first language is round about 12%, but 'bilingual' covers am multitude of sins.

There are very many Indians for whom the question of whether they are native speakers or not is irrelevant; they both speak it and write it much, much better than you or I will ever do. On the other hand these aren't the people applying for jobs in the Gulf, though I've had to advice a couple not to.

[rusmeister]

The essential problem with such "native speakers" is that in general, English is not the primary or exclusive language of the country. This immediately puts such people in a 'second tier' vis-a-vis people from English-as-the-primary-language (EPL) countries. Their English may be good, it may be excellent, but it won't come across as native to people from an EPL country. They may find popularity in non-English speaking countries, whose people can't tell the difference, but they won't be accepted as native among EPL speakers.

The issue of teaching ability is an entirely different subject.

[odhorsudhapan]

[jwbhomer]

The Canadian census asks you which language you first spoke and understood in your home, and then counts you as a (native?) speaker of that language. On that basis, my three sons are counted as Ukrainian speakers, yet they can't speak Ukrainian at all. A more realistic question would seem to be: What language did you first speak as a child which you still speak fluently on a daily basis today?

As for the OP, I wouldn't think that someone who speaks of "medium schooling" (as opposed to "middle school"???) would be accepted as a native speaker.

[blackmagicABC]

I am relatively sure he meant medium as the language of instruction and not middle school. It still wouldn't qualify you as a native speaker though.

[TheLongWayHome]