Job Discussion Forums

[spiral78]

So, guys, you're convinced there must be some ways to work legally in Germany as a US citizen.

Please go there, and let me know how it works.

By March '08, I'll have dual US/Czech (EU member) citizenship, 10 years language teaching experience, and an MA TESL/TEFL from the University of Birmingham, England.

I have researched ways for me to work legally in Germany, where the pay would be better than anything I can find in the Czech Rep,I'm sure. So far, I have found no legal route.

Please let me know how to do this. I can also paint houses and play the piano.

I will be very grateful.

[Haft]

Let's assume they conceded the point through silence. Does an Italian passport work for Germany?

And as for a legal occupations, how about gambling? You hit the jackpot and then get lost for 6 months at a time. Never mind where you are in the meantime.

[spiral78]

Yeah, an Italian passport works.

Get lost? Seems as though that's what the other posters have done - a successful strategy indeed!

[BerlinCELTA]

Hi Spiral78,

I take it when you say "work legally in Germany", you mean get a full-time employment contract as opposed to work freelance or start your own business?

Apart from the bureaucracy, there should be nothing stopping you from obtaining the right to work freelance as a language teacher in Germany; gaining full time employee status is a different kettle of fish.

A non-EU colleague who I asked about this issue some time back posted this in response:

"When I went to the work permit office the first time they thought I wanted a general work permit which they told me would take up to 8 weeks to get and may not be possible to get at all. When I told this to one of the schools interested in hiring me they got me in contact with another non-EU teacher and she gave me a copy of her work permit. I took this copy to the work office and it was smooth sailing from there. So I advise you to get a copy of the work permit of another non-EU teacher to make sure there is no confusion. After they knew what I wanted they asked me for:

-University Diploma
-Burgeramt address registration
-1 passport photo
-Any letters I had from schools offering me work
-Passport
-60 euros

...and then I had a work permit that day. "

So it CAN be this easy for FREELANCE work permits. Considering the nature of the English Teaching Market in Gemany, this is a realistic option for language teachers from outside the EU.

Anthony Gaughan
Berlin, Germany

[spiral78]

One other point, though - the laws change over time. The story you quote may or may not STILL be the case.

For example:

I've just renewed my work permit for Netherlands. (Yes, I am already gainfully employed inside the EU and have been for years - I'm not really posting from a personal standpoint).

Before, the visa process could be done FROM the Netherlands. This year, it could only be done from my HOME country (meaning, for me, the States or the Czech Rep, where I hold permanent residency).

Further, it used to be a same-day process, but this time took 30 days -

This new requirement apparently went into effect ACROSS THE SCHENGEN ZONE countries on March 1. If this turns out to be the case, it will make things much more complex for new applicants.

Anyway, the point is that a story from even a few months ago may or may not still be applicable. I agree that if the system still works as you describe, working freelance is a viable option for non-EU candidates.

But the overal moral of the story is - you need to find out from the authorities in real time exactly what regulations will apply to you. Flexibility will be key - you really can't 'move to Europe' counting on everything working out easily. Maybe it will - but quite possibly, not.

[Shaytess]

I had posted on Dave's about trying to work in Berlin and getting rejected for a fulltime work permit and then getting a freelance work permit.

Just an update, I have now been working for several months and continue to meet Americans who found it quite easy to get a freelance permit here.

I heard from one of my bosses also that 90% of adult language teachers in Germany work as freelancers rather than as fulltime employees - that goes for EU and non EU language teachers. That made me feel a lot better about having been rejected for my fulltime work permit. Seems most people do not have one.

I am now working at 3 schools and can make decent money that way, between 15 and 20 Euros per hour depending on the school and the type of students.

As Spiral78 said, the rules can change all the time and I have met both people who got their freelance permit in 1 day and people who got it in a month or even a bit longer. You should definitely have a friend to stay with and some savings saved up if you move here.

That being said, Berlin is a really, really cool city and fairly cheap compared to other European cities. There are TONS of free and very cheap activities to keep you busy. I lived in Istanbul before this, and got very bored going to the same 3 night spots over and over. You definitely can do a lot more fun things in Berlin! Also, my German is quite shit although I am working on it, and it is very easy to get by here - EXCEPT in government offices. You really need a native speaker to go with you and deal with those people.

If anybody would like more info. about working as an American in Berlin, you can PM me!

[BerlinCELTA]

Hi Spiral78,

You said:

"...you need to find out from the authorities in real time exactly what regulations will apply to you. Flexibility will be key - you really can't 'move to Europe' counting on everything working out easily. Maybe it will - but quite possibly, not..."

At the risk of sounding inflammatory (which I don't want to be): isn't this obvious and should go without saying? Why should anyone expect to be able to move country and be entitled to work freely without first informing themselves of any and all regulations and restrictions which may apply (and I am fully aware of article 23 of the UN Declaration...)?

Anyone who expects to travel to a different country and gain employment without taking account of the fact that there may be legal or bureaucratic considerations cannot really complain, can they?

On the other hand, anyone who does their homework and goes about the process in a professional manner stands a fair chance of success.

Just a thought.

[spiral78]

Sure, I agree that it should be obvious.

But I've been around this forum and Europe for just over ten years now and have encountered COUNTLESS North Americans who are utterly clueless about any rules that might prevent or delay them from working in the European capitol of their choice.

Maybe it's mostly North Americans (I am one, so I'm somewhat entitled to slam ) who are out of the loop on the fact that there are rules and regs.

[BerlinCELTA]

Wow - didn't expect such a quick response - thanks.

I suspect there are a fair number of Brits heading off to the far East who make similar errors as North Americans do about Europe.

Whether North Americans are especially prone to this thinking or not, the fact that this seems to be a permanent issue in ELT/ESOL makes it look like a systemic problem: question is, what to do about it? I mean, the information is out there and a modicum of intelligence (which a prospective teacher should possess) would tell you where to start looking for it. Access really isn't the issue; awareness is.

ELT is still promoted by many as an easy "key to travel around the world". This suggests (inaccurately) that holding an initial ELT certification is sufficient to guarantee "free passage without let or hindrance".

In a way, I suppose, you can't entirely blame those who wish to accept this as true as long as course providers, schools, and the myriad web-based businesses which are able to trade in areas relating to language learning and teaching present this image.

So the simple answer might be: those in charge of image and marketing (and you all know who you are) stop doing it! Accept that, just like any other profession, ELT is subject to international regulations and, whether you hold a PGCE with Qualified Teacher Status in your home country or a 4-week certificate, you are still subject to the laws of the country which you wish to enter - presenting it any other way is misrepresenting the facts and is unethical.

Of course, this should all also go without saying

It's just a pity it doesn't.

[spiral78]

A very useful point.

I've become really fed up recently with quite a few of the old lines fed to potential newbies.

I've been working on the Czech Rep forum in particular with a goal of helping to slant the 'propaganda' in a more realistic direction.

I can pick on the CR with confidence, because I've been based there for more than 10 years now and have friends involved both in teacher training and who own language schools.

But the info is really relevant to the European market in general.

One of the old mantras, around forever, has been 'you'll earn a good salary by local standards.' This is untrue primarily because locals throughout Europe are very rarely paying the kind of rents that expats are forced by market pressures to pay. And the normal local family with two incomes and local housing costs is many miles ahead of where any expat EFL teacher with basic qualifications can ever hope to be.

Another old line is 'you can live comfortably here by western standards.' This, in a situation where many (in some places, even most) teachers need to flat-share to reduce housing costs, and where a pair of jeans or shoes is a major expenditure. Teachers with basic quals have no realistic hopes of ever being able to buy a car - or a flat - on their teaching wages.

This is a burger-flipping/coffee pouring standard of living in both western countries I've lived in (Canada and US).

Finally, the training centres (and I'm again picking on Prague because there are so many in the city, but centres in Spain are notorious for encouraging North Americans to work illegally) need to be consistently up to date on the current laws (at minimum in the country where they are based).

To market a course to non-EU member citizens when it is unlikely or unclear that they can get legal working permits is unethical. Not to imply that the training centres are directly responsible for the visa success of individual 'grads' of their courses, but they should certainly be aware of and up front with information about the general rules and regulations that will apply.

[BerlinCELTA]

Very true. There is a discussion about ethics in ELT as it relates to teacher training going on at the IATEFL Online website (a virtual IATEFL Conference running parallel to the real conference going on in Exeter next week whichyou can find at http://exeteronline.britishcouncil.org/) and this point should be discussed there too.

Working as I do at an initial teacher training centre, I also feel that the onus is on centres to be as fully informed as possible regarding local working regulations. This isn't always easy as you rightly point out but this does not relieve us of the responsibility.

At the very minimum, centres should inform candidates that there may be regulations which apply to them and that they should seek guidance from the following:

Their local embassy

The Department for Immigration and or Employment in the target country

Local Teacher's Associations operating in the region

Recent course graduates from the centre's programme who have agreed to speak about their own experiences.

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[BerlinCELTA]

Deicide wrote:

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