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Arabic in KSA
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007



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

umzakaria wrote:
Most arab speakers will tell you (if they are being objective) that Iraqi arabic is the purest....sounds a bit like the discussion on types of English !

I am a native speaker of Arabic, and I can speak most of the colloquial Arabic of the Arab world, from Morocco to Iraq. And I can tell you that it is rare to find an Arab speaker who can speak the classic Arabic in the street, except of course, the academicians in an academic environment (like conferences) or in the Arab TV news.

But, still Syria, Lebanon, Yemen, Egypt, and Tunisia are the best places to learn the classic (Al-Fusha) Arabic.

BTW, the most difficult Arabic (Al-Fusha) is the one used in the Quran.
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trapezius



Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 1670
Location: Land of Culture of Death & Destruction

PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Egyptian Arabic (or actually the way Egyptians speak Arabic) sounds very base and uncivilized. That's just my opinion.

As for the different dialects, this should be helpful:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic

Here is a small excerpt yo get y'all interested:

Quote:
The major groups are:

Egyptian Arabic مصري : Spoken by about 79 million people in Egypt and perhaps the most widely understood variety, due to the popularity of Egyptian-made films and TV shows
Maghrebi Arabic مغربي (Algerian Arabic, Moroccan Arabic, Tunisian Arabic, Maltese and western Libyan Arabic) The Moroccan and Algerian dialects are each spoken by about 20 million people.
Levantine Arabic شامي (Western Syrian, Lebanese, Palestinian, western Jordanian and Cypriot Maronite Arabic)
Iraqi Arabic عراقي (and Khuzestani Arabic) - with significant differences between the more Arabian-like gilit-dialects of the south and the more conservative qeltu-dialects of the northern cities
East Arabian Arabic بحريني (Eastern Saudi Arabia, Western Iraq, Eastern Syrian, Jordanian and parts of Oman)
Gulf Arabic خليجي (Bahrain, Saudi Eastern Province, Kuwait, UAE, Qatar, and Oman)



And I found this very fascinating:

Quote:
Maltese مالطي, which is spoken on the Mediterranean island of Malta, is the only one to have established itself as a fully separate language, with independent literary norms. Apart from its phonology, Maltese bears considerable similarity to urban varieties of Tunisian Arabic, however in the course of history, the language has adopted numerous loanwords, phonetic and phonological features, and even some grammatical patterns, from Italian, Sicilian, and English. It is also the only Semitic tongue written in the Latin alphabet.


Wow!
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Mia Xanthi



Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 955
Location: why is my heart still in the Middle East while the rest of me isn't?

PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 4:18 pm    Post subject: for ghost Reply with quote

If ghost comes to the Dhahran/Dammam/Al Khobar area, there is an excellent private teacher in Al Khobar who gives month-long classes in intensive Arabic. It's costly, though - I think about 1400 SR ( over $350 US) per month.
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

trapezius wrote:
Egyptian Arabic (or actually the way Egyptians speak Arabic) sounds very base and uncivilized. That's just my opinion.

I wonder how much of your prejudice against Egyptian Arabic is because - especially in the Gulf - Egyptians are very looked down upon as servant class. I'd guess that Egyptian Arabic is to Arabic what the New York City dialect is to American English. Both are rough and abrupt... and full of humor for those who catch the nuance. Laughing

Fascinating details about Maltese. I have never seen it discussed along with the other Semitic languages. Most articles claim only the three: Arabic, Hebrew, and Aramaic.

VS
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trapezius



Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 1670
Location: Land of Culture of Death & Destruction

PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I wonder how much of your prejudice against Egyptian Arabic is because - especially in the Gulf - Egyptians are very looked down upon as servant class.


Trust me... it isn't that. I myself come from a "servant class" as per the locals.

Quote:
I'd guess that Egyptian Arabic is to Arabic what the New York City dialect is to American English.


CORRECTION:

I'd guess that Egyptian Arabic is to Arabic what Ebonics is to American English.

Wink
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

trapezius wrote:

CORRECTION:

I'd guess that Egyptian Arabic is to Arabic what Ebonics is to American English.

Wink

You may wink, but that is absolutely not true... unless you say that every colloquial Arabic dialect is equivalent to Ebonics. (which also isn't true) Or perhaps you are not really that familiar with Ebonics. Laughing

VS
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007



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
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Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom

PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"The terms Egyptian Arabic and Masri are usually used synonymously with "Cairene Arabic", the dialect of the Egyptian capital. The country's native name, Maṣr, is used locally to refer to the capital Cairo itself. Similar to the role played by Parisian French, Masri is by far the most dominant in all areas of national life. While it is essentially a spoken language, it is encountered in written form in novels, plays, poems (vernacular literature) as well as in comics, advertising, some newspapers and transcriptions of popular songs. In most other written media and in TV news reporting, a standard register of Classical Arabic is used. The Egyptian vernacular is normally written in the Arabic alphabet for local consumption, although it is commonly transcribed into Latin letters or in the International Phonetic Alphabet in linguistics text and textbooks aimed at teaching non-native learners."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_Arabic
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Mia Xanthi



Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 955
Location: why is my heart still in the Middle East while the rest of me isn't?

PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 5:21 pm    Post subject: egyptian arabic Reply with quote

I would agree that Egyptian Arabic is not to Fusha what Ebonics is to standard US English. Fusha itself (Modern Standard Arabic) is based on the varieties of Arabic spoken in Baghdad, Damascus, and Cairo. All three are considered to be "respected" varieties of Arabic. It's actually more reasonable to say that the relationship between Cairo Arabic and Fusha is somewhat like the relationship of American English to British English.
I had better explain what I meant when I said that Fusha is based on these three varieties. As there is in France, the Arab world has a sort of "language committee" of respected academics who make decisions about what is and what is not considered to be part of Modern Standard Arabic. Most of the members are from the long-established academic communities in Baghdad, Cairo, and Damascus, and thus these varieties have strongly influenced Modern Standard Arabic.
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goteach99



Joined: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:55 pm    Post subject: Arabic in KSA Reply with quote

Jasmin,
Learn Arabic because you want to. It will be of no help in getting a job nor will it be very useful in the Kingdom. Everywhere you go you will interact with workers that will speak English. It may be useful in forming personal relationships with Saudi nationals. You can study Arabic at home and just use the opportunity to use it when you find yourself in an immersion environment.

I agree that you will probably not be allowed into the kingdom to study and there are many inexpensive places to study.

Good luck with your future plans and I think you are on the right path to interacting and making friends in an arab culture.

Johnny
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desert date



Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 67
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

umzakaria wrote:
I would second Stephen Jones advice to learn arabic in Egypt,they have some very good centres there.The cost of living is pretty low too.


Any particular school(s) that you would recommend?
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lall



Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 358

PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:23 pm    Post subject: Kalimat Reply with quote

There's a language centre by the name of Kalimat near Mustapha Mahmud mosque on Gamaat El Dowal El Arabia Street in Mohandessein, Cairo.

Their website is www.kalimategypt.com

Regards,

Lall.
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ghost



Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1693
Location: Saudi Arabia

PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:25 pm    Post subject: re Reply with quote

Quote:
If ghost comes to the Dhahran/Dammam/Al Khobar area, there is an excellent private teacher in Al Khobar who gives month-long classes in intensive Arabic. It's costly, though - I think about 1400 SR ( over $350 US) per month.


For how many hours per week?

If it is a few hours per day, then that's fine, but if it is for one session a week then it's too expensive.

Ghost
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're expecting a few hours a day of lessons for $350 a month? Really?

VS
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trapezius



Joined: 13 Aug 2006
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Location: Land of Culture of Death & Destruction

PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It could be anywhere from 7 hours to 28 hours.

[SR. 50/hr to SR. 200/hr]
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desert date



Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 67
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Kalimat Reply with quote

lall wrote:
There's a language centre by the name of Kalimat near Mustapha Mahmud mosque on Gamaat El Dowal El Arabia Street in Mohandessein, Cairo.


Good one, lall. Any others?
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