Job Discussion Forums

[Saiops]

Hiya All,

I would like a forum where teachers and administrators can give comments about schools and management. I like things open and direct and everything taken with a grain of salt.

I have worked in China for about 6 years teaching everything from young learners to adults. I have seen the good and ugly side of education in China. I have studied the Chinese educational system from an Investment Banking & Operational Implementation perspective.

I have worked my way up from a teacher to the Dean of Academic Affairs of a school. I could probably work at any educational institute where I have held a job in the past. I am pretty confident that I could get a recommendation from any school that I have worked for.

When giving praises and warnings, please include the managers name, and the branch of school. Please explain details of events and what triggered those events.

From my experiences, I know that 1 branch maybe better than another branch. Also, management has a big impact on how things are run. Some managers are incompetent while others are great to work for.

I don't want just schools & administrators that are bad, but I want to hear the good stuff too. Any comment should be looked at with a grain of salt, and anyone should be free to give their perspective. Also, I think that any comments made by people should be allowed to be refuted. In other words, lets hear both sides of the story.

Here are my personal guidelines when accepting a job or looking for a job in China.

1. Ask for permission to talk to current teachers working there. Another teacher will probably give you the real deal better than some placement agency.

2. Make sure they are willing to put all things on paper.

3. Don't send orignal documents like diplomas, certifications, and etc..

4. I wouldn't pay money to find a job. Most placement agencies get paid by the school. If you are paying anything in advance, odds are it is a scam.

5. Legit schools can get you a legit working visa. Non natives of non English speaking countries have a harder time. Some legit schools prefer to bring you in on a tourist L or Business F visa before they give you a Z visa. It is a pain going through the process and takes anywhere from 30-60 days to get a legit Z visa.

6. Background checks on schools: See if the negative comments are recent. If things are a few years old or they just have a few then it is possible that it was a disgruntled employee. Every organization gets them. A disgruntled employee is more likely to write a negative comment than one that is happy with their job. Schools that pay hourly and are great to work for are pretty much well kept secrets. You need to know someone who is in there to get them. If there was management change then things may have changed.

7. Usually, schools with Western Management are run a bit better than the Chinese ones. However, the govt schools tend to be much safer, but pay much less. However, be wary of those organizations that use expats that get pimped by their school to lure in expats. I would like a list of those names! Teachers who became administrators tend to treat teachers better than those who have never taught.

8. Negotiate and stick with your agreement. I personally, allow an escape clause for both school and teacher. If things don't work out both parties are free to cancel agreement within first 60 days. People coming in from out of country this option is not available to you. A school will not want to invest visa costs for someone who is going to walk back out. If you pick up these costs then the school maybe more inclinde to agree. My teachers pay for their visa fees and housing, but I pay them more to compensate for visa, airfare and insurance. I believe the teacher should select their own housing and decide how they want to live and when they want to travel. Don't get sour grapes if you didn't negotiate your contract well and find out other teachers are making more than you. Ask and know the price ranges before you take the job.

Most schools in China pimp their teachers during recruiting periods. I would make sure that this issued is discussed before taking the job. Ask if you will have to do this and if you will get paid for doing this. I don't do that with my employees:) However, my school is an exception.

9. Your first year will always be the toughest, but once you get past that you will have more options to better jobs if you complete your first year without any hitches. If you are on a Z visa, you will need to get a release letter from them upon completion of your contract to switch it to another school. Don't forget to get one on their letterhead before you leave. 2008 may have some delays due to the olympics. However, most visa issues should be resolved within 90 days. It normally takes 60 days to get all the paperwork processed. If you need a faster visa, it will cost. The faster you need the visa the more it will cost, because a visa agency will take advantage of your situation knowing you need it right away. The bribes that go on give your paperwork priority;) The normal way takes about 60. I have seen visas processed in a week but cost 6x more than the regular method.

10. Save all e-mails and correspondences from recruiters and schools. Also verify all promises in writing that were made by recruiters with the school they are sending you to. Ask for direct contact with the schools admin.

11. Hourly pays much better than the Salary rates. However, 1st timers I would suggest taking the Salary rates until you know your way around and can speak the native language.

12. Be understanding and flexible about the culture and environment you are in. Knowing how to talk and deal with a school or administrator is a big plus. Handle things badly and things turn ugly fast.

13. Don't expect to change the school to the way you are used to things at home. You are living in an alien culture that does things differently.

14. Look at the fine print, ask if you can tutor on your off hours or if you are allowed to work at other institutions to earn more. Housing fees like telephone, water, etc.. Office hours.

15. Benefits and drawbacks. Business English tends to pay more, but working professionals tend to cancel more. Make sure you discuss what happens if a customer cancels on you on short notice. I pay my teachers 1/2 pay if the cancelation is less than 24 hours. If a student does it a lot then they occupy your time slot so that you can't get another student in that time period, but you don't get paid because of the cancelation. Also lots of these are suit & tie/ professional dress / traveling around the city to different locations - ask about transportation re-imbursement if an organization is sending you around the city to different locations. Lots of times you may teach for 1 hour at a higher pay, but you spend 2 hours in traveling. Benefits of Business English, don't have to grade too much homework because they hate doing it. It's pretty tough to make an adult to study.LOL Most business English is just a lot of talking.

16. Cost evaluation: Where you are working. Shanghai and Beijing are more expensive than outlying areas. You may make less in rural areas but things cost a whole lot less. For example, my area nice 2 bedroom apartment ranges 3k-6k a month. Outlying area pays 1k for 3 bedrooms.
Salary range you probably making 30-60 RMB an hour if you include office hours. plus apartment, plus insurance, plus 1/2 month salary travel expenses at end of contract and paid vacation days. Hourly you make 100-250 per hour but you pay for everything. The drawbacks to hourly pay is that work may not always be steady - especially on long vacation months of spring festival and national holiday. Those periods - business tends to be slow for most English academies. Work is usually plentiful during the summer. Lots of camps and stuff. My teachers average 8 or so hours a day during those periods and make 16k-30k during those months. The teachers will work 30-50 hours a week to get that. My school is senoirity based. Senoir teachers get as much hours as they want - the rest going to the new guys.

17 Be wary of the nickel and dimers. Here is one: you get paid per session being 45 minutes with a 15 minute break. You get paid for maybe 3 hours work but had to spend 4 hours to get it. I really don't mind working the extra 5-15 minutes. Most periods usually have a 10 minute break for students to get to class. I pay my teachers for 1 hour for teaching 50 minutes. However, some schools will actually calculate the 50 minute period and after 6 working hours you will get paid for 5. Those minutes are added up. Be wary of late payers. It may happen once in a while but if it happens a lot then I would first talk with the administrator to discuss this issue. I pay a 1/2 % daily late fee of money owed for teachers who get their pay late. It has happend a few times due to vacation periods when the accountant wasn't there. I pay my teachers on the last working day of the month. If pay day falls on a vacation period or a day that we are closed like Sunday, we try to give either the day before or the first working day after pay day. Overtime should be discussed and negotiated prior for salary people.

Most hourly people need to give a demo class. The decent schools will pay you for this, but the nickle and dimers will ask you to do it for free.

Well organized English programs usually train their teachers. Some will pay others will not. I normally don't pay an English teacher to learn grammar. I figure its part of the professional knowledge that you should have going into this job. I personally use this to weed out the less serious teachers and back packers. Majority of my teachers can explain grammar points on the spot without looking it up on the internet or from a reference book after they have been trained.

Most TEFL/TESL programs teach methodology instead of grammar so a TEFL certificate doesn't mean you will know how to explain these points.

I hope this information is useful for both teacher and administrator. Lets hear your stories:) If you got good schools or administrators in Beijing, I want to hear about them. I pass the info on to my newer teachers if they want more work. I don't mind sharing my teachers with other schools, but teachers on my visa give me priority during prime time. 4-9 pm. THis is the period most kids get out of their normal school and come to ours. Regular schools usually need their teachers between 9-4 pm. Universities are scheduled throughout the day.

[Mr. Kalgukshi]

I just deleted several off-topic jabs that had nothing to do with the topic at hand.

We have never permitted attacks on members for individual writing style or grammatical construction.

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[Mr. Kalgukshi]

This thread is now unlocked.

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[kev7161]

There are so many grammar rules (and some seem to change with the wind) that even as someone who teaches as a profession, I have to refer to my teacher's manual to get all my facts straight. It's not just English, mind you. I also teach primary Math and I still have to refer to my book when preparing my lessons. I taught for several years before coming to China but I will never claim to be an expert in any subject. Obviously, some areas of English (or Math or Science or . . . ) come a little easier for me to teach than others, but I still feel I can do justice for my students when it comes to teaching them the basics.

[Tsuris]

I recently came across what I think is an excellent introductory Guide for Foreigners Living and Working in China. It contains everything Saiops wrote about plus another 80 pages or so. Wish I had found something like that before I came to China.

[AussieGuyInChina]

Excellent resource, Tsuris!

This thread should now become a sticky, purely for the link to the teacher's guide.

[jwbhomer]

[Saiops]

[quote="kev7161"]There are so many grammar rules (and some seem to change with the wind) that even as someone who teaches as a profession, I have to refer to my teacher's manual to get all my facts straight. quote]

English is an evolving language. It will continue to change. I was just telling one of my new teachers not to worry about the differences in Brit and American English. We just notify them currently that Americans say/spell it this way and Brits that way. Necessary at our school because we may teach IELTS/TOEFL/SAT. Since the tests are different based cultures our students may take a hit on the test for a few points on spelling. We just tell them to learn both and use the appropriate choice for the test you are taking. For example, if my kid is taking a IELTS to go to Australia then we would tell him to spell "programme" instead of program. Many grammarians still disagree on minor points but most agree on the majority of them. Brits say LIFT Americans still use the word ELEVATOR. We just increase the vocab word count a little to compensate.

I am an American, I normally joke with my Brit teachers and ask them where did you learn to speak English from LOL. THe often respond with you blimey colonists stole if from us. LOL



As for teachers, stick with what you know. If you were taught Brit Engl then stick with it. If you were taught Amer English stick with it. If you can explain the differences in both. You are even better for it. Props and Praises for teachers who take the time to learn it.

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG with looking for stuff on the internet or in reference books. It is part of our job as educators to maintain accuracy in what we teach. I much prefer a teacher that is willing to look it up and understand it then have one who says: It sounds wrong, or this is how we say it.

[Saiops]

[Tsuris]

[Saiops]

Hey u got anything good. Link it here. Hopefully, mod deletes the viagra ones LOL