Job Discussion Forums

[Sunshine Bob]

I came to Spain (Alicante area) 3 years ago and bought a house. My wife (not in education) and I have given it a good go here and have learnt Spanish from scratch. This should give us an excellent base to continue you would think. Wrong! We're off! Spain, in my very considered opinion, is great for weather, cheap social life and learning a relatively easy language. It's bad for pay, contracts (invariably about 9 months so no hol pay) and has a real inflation rate which must be pushing 15%.

As for prop values; we bought near the peak in 2005. Prices have stayed static since. Consider the economic cycle as 10 years up, 10 years down and factor in that the Spanish economy also reached its zenith in 2005. My prediction is that the slide - by which I mean no increase in value year on year as opposed to a paper value reduction - will continue until 2015.

Pay, after deductions, can be as good as �1,500 in a really bumper month. But this is for teaching time of 30 hours a week. Most of my classes are in company, so some of the better school contracts, but I only earn about �15 ph net. Take substantial - and increasing - travel costs and your (unpaid) travelling time off and I calculate your true return at �8 ph if you have to run a vehicle. (Don't even think about paying for car parking - I think London must be cheaper!)

[El_Che]

sorry it hasn't worked out for you.

it's true what you say about the general economic situation in spain, but with regards to pay and hours, your post does highlight the necessity to choose the right base to work out of.

i dare say that the demand for english teachers in the alicante region is a lot less than in madrid, barcelona and valencia. the competition is probably stiffer too, since alicante has a high proportion of brits. the bigger cities cut out the necessity for car ownership, with their efficient (and cheap) public transport. the going rate is also likely to be higher, and it's quite easy to build up contacts and private classes to ensure that you supplement your income.

of course your outgoings are important. if you have large debt (big mortgage etc), a partner who's not working, children etc, then clearly teaching is not going to support you in spain.

[Moore]

Sorry to hear it didn't work out for you: I think El-Che is right when he says the city you live in is a key factor, but the 9 months work and three months unemployment thing is very true.

It's been said many times on this forum: the TEFL scene in Spain is tough to do long-term: it's great for a year or two in the sun, but the vicious slowdown in work/forced summer camp/uk teaching stint can really get you down after a bit.

The only way around this is to diversify by setting up a little side business, doing translation, or just earning as much as you possibly can before the summer and Christmas slumps and then just lazing round in bars until September (pretty much my favourite!): trouble is, this is only really possible in places like Madrid where there is so much work you can pretty much sort out back to back hours in one or two locations so as to cut down on your travelling time.

It's not all bad news though: as the euro has got a lot stronger compared to the pound (and dollar) going home for visits isn't so bad, and the typical 20 euro/hour Madrid rate doesn't actually seem all that bad comparatively. Also, when you actually compare how many hours you do with a Spanish person (who have a chronic office presentee-ism problem) and the money you get in return, you realise that 1500 a month for 22 hours a week (assuming your travel time isn't so bad) is pretty good over here.

Anyway, if you do go home and end up missing Spain I'd seriously recommend you give moving to Madrid a thought: it's polluted, brick-ey, noisy and doesn't have a beach either, but it's still a very chilled city to live in and probably the best bet for anyone wanting to live off TEFL long term in Spain.

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[Marcoregano]

There's quite a bit of crossover in this thread with my post below (Beyond private language schools)...

How about state schools? Is the pay better than private TEFL rates? Is it difficult to get work at state schools and what quals are needed?

And how about the universities?

BTW, if you're leaving Spain, where are you going? Surely not the UK???? I know soooo many people who've returned to UK from HK, only to see them return a year or two later, white with shock!

[Sunshine Bob]

Thanks Moore for your very considered feedback. Great to hear from someone who clearly knows the scene here really well.

My wife and I have both tried, with limited success, to either work outside TEFL and/or take summer jobs not related to TEFL. You get the picture - trying to put a second string on the old bow. However, it still rubs that we have to do this 'cos TEFL here simply isn't a full-time job.

Sure, we can get by but over the years I've witnessed most of my students - most of them much younger than me - generally improving their financial lot, enjoying their 14 pay days a year and buying their new cars. [The days of the Spaniard being the poor man of Europe is long, long gone but a myth they do love to perpetuate don't they!?). In comparison, as said, teaching TEFL long-term here is well, as I say, "getting by".

The issue is that I do love teaching and wish I'd come into it sooner. No. I've decided that enough is enough. I don't blame the employers. It's sheer supply and demand. But with a professional approach to teaching, and a former career in banking, I'm looking for somewhere which will reward hard work and commitment with, at least, what I deem to be a fair contract of employment with reasonable hours and pay.

The search for the Holy Grail I hear you say!

[Sunshine Bob]

Moore seems to be very knowledgeable about the big city situation here. Perhaps in Madrid the state schools will give a TEFL cert teacher a go but here in the provinces the state school jobs - civil service jobs of any kind in fact - are seen as the creme de la creme.

The Spanish gov recently confirmed it is looking to expand big time the number of English teachers in state schools. However, the article didn't say these would be native English speakers and we, personally, know Spanish girls who have an excvellent level who have been working for years to try to land English teaching jobs. Plenty of the sub 30 Spanish have an advanced level now and they will, naturally, fish in their own pond first.

From what I've read the authorities are not interested in reducing their selection criteria. The Spanish are still very bureaucratic (not a criticism just a fact) and VERY qualfication focused. So they'd presently be looking for PGCE, uni degree and an ability to converse in Spanish. Regarding the latter point, I live in Comunidad Valenciana. Unless they relax the rules there is the extra requirement here that, for any state job, you have to speak Valenciano!!

[SirKirby]

You're currently going to find it almost impossible to get into the state school system unless you have a degree that has been convalidated (tough, if not impossible!), or a degree from a Spanish university.

Note that -- assuming you are young and like kids -- there is quite a lot of work to be had on summer camps in Spain (intense, and hard work, but relatively wellpaid).

Some language schools also employ people for July (at least) summer intensive courses.

[Marcoregano]

Thanks Bob. Interesting stuff. Personally, though I have 3 degrees including an MEd in TESOL I know that I don't stand a chance of working in a state school - I don't have a PGCE and am nowhere near fluent in Spanish. However, my wife is ethnically Spanish (though born and brought up in the US) and she has the US version of PGCE, an education degree and is fluent - plus she has plenty of EFL teaching experience. Still, methinks there is a special Spanish teaching certificate which is also necessary for 'extranjeros' to pass...do you (or anyone else) know if that is the case?

And how about Spanish universities? Any work there?

[Marcoregano]

And tks Sir Kirby.

So...is there a course that an outsider can take which enables him/her to teach in state schools, and which is shorter than a full 3-year degree? Is there an equivalent to the UK PGCE?

And again, how's about work at the universities?

[SirKirby]

There's not a shorter course that I know of...

You want to get your degree "convalidado", but I can't now remember the details of the process (except that it was a nightmare ,-) !

It might be that state schools are going to get so desperate for language teachers in the short term, if the Spanish Gov. is serious about improving lang. skills, that they relax the requirements, but I doubt it...

There is work in Universities, but not freelancing. It's a market some of the larger language schools have got into: they provide the University's English program, and the teachers for it...

But that means you're getting paid language school rates, not what you might imagine you might get paid for working at a University...

[jonniboy]