Job Discussion Forums

[jfurgers]

[MO39]

[corporatehuman]

Sorry to hear that Jfurgers. I have a friend who has a similar experience. And in a completely other state. It isn't just the D.F.

I would vote for individualistic as well. However I find this exaagerated in D.F. as compared to when I lived in Chiapas. More than individualistic I think selfish. But the problem with that word is its negative connotations, so let me not say selfish but, self-aware of life; and that is, regardless of it you are alone.

Then there is family. You are not alone with family. Family is the only thing you can trust (sometimes...SOMETIMES.) Every family is different, however they all have secrets. What family doesn't? The difference is these secrets are all known and are only secret because they are never brought to words. So in my Western idea, they are not at all secrets, how can they be secrets if everyone knows them? Everyone knows that everyone else knows them but it does not matter because it is not discussed. Where I'm from we discuss secrets to reach some sort of solution; a conclusion. In Mexico there is no conclusion. The elipses can continue on for generations . . .. . . . . . . . . . .

There are millions of things unsaid. No one says everything. People always hide something. If what they are hiding comes out, it is ignored, as if it never existed.

I don't mind dealing with life in this way anymore. At one point I did. Now I am used to it and in some ways it makes sense. While I am a completely unsecretive person (as I like to think) I also realize that is a lie. In my effort to be completely honest I'll end up lying, and in an effort to lie I'll be honest. Sometimes I think Mexicans have it much more figured out than I ever thought.

Individualistic yes, but who isn't? I guess people say the Japanese aren't; but I don't believe that. Maybe Mexicans are hyper-individualistic, but they do it while being unspokingly unified. So much communication happens underneath the words that it boggles my mind; sometimes its hard to pick up on it all. Mexicans participate in their places, while some seek to achieve many accept what they have and they do not complain; they are not a 'can do anything' culture they are a 'can do what is reasonable' culture, all the while doing anything they want.

I'm not sure really individualistic is the right word. It -does- sound American as a previous poster said. Maybe we'll just have to say Mexicans are Mexicans and leave it at that. There are so many circles you can draw around a fascinating, frustrating, consistently surprising place that like any circle, you will end up where you begun.

The whole point of Mexico is not to bother to define it, or its people. If I've learned anything it is to simply accept things for what they are, and not try to control something as uncontrollable as life. The problem is the definition will always slip, you will always find an instant you are wrong and you are right (as everything I've posted above has done); no country fits into a box so...maybe a pyramid or a bee hive with its shape in flux.

[GueroPaz]

I don't know enough to vote, but I would say that generally, it seems to me that Mexican culture is more collectivist than the US and Canadian cultures are. Of course, I spent much of my time in indigenous ejidos and villages, and some time in an isolated beach community in Chiapas. My two children who married into Mexican-American families found their in-laws to be far more family oriented than our own. My daughters who live in Browsville are surrounded by senior adult day care centers for Mexican-Americans who still sleep at their children's houses. Hardly any old folks' homes. Senora Flores lived with her daughter until death, as her great grandchildren were becoming adults. My daughter was just telling how, on their first trip to the in-laws' house, she memorized the names of 14 siblings of her father-in-law.

Politically, I suspect Mexico is collectivist, at least in the recent past. The government owns the oil company, and used to own dozens more companies. IMSS tries to serve all the population.

That's just my semi-informed opinion.

[MikeySaid]

The family unit is still very important. Even children of the affluent stay home until married with the support of their families. (Yes, I know there are exceptions.)

[jfurgers]

[MELEE]

[jfurgers]

[Samantha]

jfurgers wrote:

[jfurgers]

[chichifo]

"Marriage is on the decline in Mexico, and abstentionism is rampant. Religiously, everyday Mexico is more pluralist, so fewer people are united by a common religion"

I have to disagree on some aspects. There�s a lower turnout during local elections, but in the federal elections, turnout is higher (58.5 %, 2006). Considering the difficulties to vote in Mexican elections, this turnout is high. For instance, those Mexicans living abroad cannot vote at embassies and consulates, there�s no early voting in person or mobile polls for those who are confined to hospitals or nursing homes or simply cannot attend on the day of the election; yes, there are special polls on the day of the election, but they are quite few and have a limited number of voting ballots -I myself couldn�t vote because there were no voting ballots lefts). Despite these inconviences, in Mexico turnout is higher than the U.S. (56.69%, 2004). In fact, in places such as Mexico City turnout has been about 70%.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election#Voter_turnout
http://oscargarcia.blogspot.com/2006/05/tres-estados-pueden-definir-la-eleccin.html

In terms of religion, Mexico is plural, but I did not mean that people are ruled by religion, but attached to rituals (performances). There was a very interesting survey carried out in different countries by the BBC; I remember that U.S. and Mexico were included and it showed that Americans were more attached to religious views than Mexicans (some of the questions were wether people read the Bible, agree on separation of State and Church, etc. That survey was really revealing, of course, it doesn�t represent countries�complexities. However, it does show how important religion is for people. As I said, Mexican people are attached to rituals. My mum, 68, prays every night and all her children were baptsided. But when I told my mum I was atheist (I was 8 years old), she did not get upset or anything like that, actually she was very understanding. Also one of my family members had an abortion; my mum was very supportive, she said to her "God will forgive you". Another example, a very good friend of mine, she�s a "bruja", all her house is ful of candles and religious images, on the surface, she looks like a religious freak, but her thinking is quite straight forward and liberal.

Also, there�s a big difference between getting married and just simply avoiding getting married. In Mexico, people tend to get married, certainly many marriages fail while others are separated by migration to the U.S or affairs. But in places, such as the UK, couples first tend to cohabit, and later....they may get married, but many others just simply dont want to get married.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/number-of-unmarried-couples-rises-by-65-396039.html

My example of how people decorated their houses comes from news I read some years ago about a Mexican woman living in a white American neighbourhood; she painted her house "rosa mexicano", an action that made her neighbours angry because, for them, her house disrupted the uniformity of their street.

[Jetgirly]

I think Mexico is extremely individualistic. It's like every single person just does what is easiest and most comfortable for themselves, without thinking for one single second about the consequences for others.

Examples:
- Parents leaving unattended babies in strollers outside Soriana while they do their shopping (yay family values... also included in this point is parents who let their children ride in the back of pickup trucks when there are empty seats inside, and parents who ride around with their children on expensive motorcycles but without helmets)
- My school cancelling my classes twice in two weeks and not informing me until I show up to find an empty classroom
- The bus driver who was smoking and talking on his phone while he was driving, and then SWORE AT ME when I gasped in surprise WHEN WE DROVE INTO ANOTHER BUS (gee, I'm sorry I broke his concentration)
- The fact that when we were doing our homestay, nobody mentioned to us that the water was being cut off for five days and we we were only allowed to take two-minute showers
- The woman in line behind me at a restaurant during Semana Santa, who pushed me out of the way and told the host that she had been there first (God doesn't like people who lie during the Easter long weekend!)
- The half-empty busses that drive past me and my outstreched arm at marked bus stops without stopping while the passengers POINT AND LAUGH (I admit this hasn't happened since my sunburn faded and I dyed my hair dark brown, but apparently February was Laugh At the Stranded Gringa Month)

I could go on. And on. And on. I thought it was bad when people let their dogs poo all over the sidewalks in Italy. If I could trade all the disrespect I face every day for a little bit of dog poo, I would be a very happy girl. I don't just try to be nice- I am REALLY nice- but it's like there is no karma here. I can carry my elderly neighbours groceries all I want, I can "volunteer" (okay, not decline) to proofread documents that my boss needs to have in perfect English, I can provide bandages, tissues and clean water when a child is crying in the middle of the sidewalk because he fell and got a two-inch cut on his leg... and I'm still treated like crap every single day, simply because it's easier for other people not to think about what respectful behavior would be.

[GueroPaz]

Some cultures are both collectivist and xenophobic. Mexico is a little of each, sometimes.

[MO39]

[dixie]