Job Discussion Forums

[fluffyhamster]

I've worked in China and Japan, and Japan especially has relatively clear and fair regulations regarding obtaining a work visa, and changing employer. There are other countries however where it sounds very easy for unscrupulous employers to reduce their teachers to virtual slaves, because in those countries it's apparently very difficult if not impossible for teachers to change jobs (Korea) or even to exit the country (Indonesia) without the employer's consent.

What other countries have systems that could make a teacher's life a nightmare in this type of way? Or now have such involved or strict regulations and paperwork chases in place (e.g. Thailand) that it would seem more hassle than it's worth to try to secure a job there, even if there are reasonable employers to be had? I am obviously interested mainly in SE Asian countries, but I'm sure that others will appreciate any potted information on countries worldwide.

[phantombedwetter]

I've lived and worked in almost all the countries you've mentioned and never had a problem getting a visa, changing school, or exiting the country.
I've also never been "Reduced to a virtual slave" or, at least only in my own free time

Fluffy, have you looked at yourself and thought the problems may be therein?
Admittedly, the bureacracy may be a bit tedious, BTW have you tried to secure work in the UK as a non-member of an EU country?

[fluffyhamster]

[Sadebugo]

[basiltherat]

I can only compare the places I've spent time in but I'd say and guess even now, Indonesia, particularly Jakarta, comes pretty high on the exploitative league table. What's more it's (or should that be 'was') not only employers but pretty much city / nation wide (e,g. government departments, local authorities; RT, RW etc).
Contracts, especially in this gig, count for pretty much zippo. I remember being eloquently told such a fact by employers when I used to do some hiring (and firing) in a couple of 'institutes' in Jakarta.
To me, the country's last name, at least when I was there, could aptly be called (Republic of) Exploitation.
On the flip side, tho, I guess, if you don't like and can't hack a place, for whatever reason - including exploitation - we're in the fortunate position of being able to .... as one of my ex-employers there would eloquently put it ...... 'f#$% off'
best
basil

[Justin Trullinger]

If you look at pay and benefits vs required level of training and qualifications, then compare to other professions with similar training levels, a lot of the first world ranks pretty high for exploiting teachers! (I know whereof I speak- both my parents are highly trained teachers in the US, and my girlfriend is from a family of many teachers in the UK- non earn comparably to others with about their levels of studies...)


But to return to EFL- I think the market is the determining factor here. I've heard that Korea and CHina, for example, can be quite exploitative. I wonder if this is because they have more EFL teachers than you could shake a board marker at? Here in Ecuador, we simply don't have as many teachers as we need, and schools can't be exploitative very long, or teachers leave to go to another. Wages are generally low, and conditions vary, but there aren't enough teachers to go around, and any reasonably good institute knows it has to fight to keep them.

So if you want lowish wages, but a good time, come on down!


Best,
Justin

[fluffyhamster]

It's one thing for employers to point out that there are others around who might work for less, if an employee moans about the wages they agreed to accept or demands a pay raise (and I wonder how many teachers in e.g. China "seriously" go in with that sort of attitude), but quite another for some employers to not pay people what was agreed, deny or withdraw benefits etc (and get really nasty if the teacher(s) dare to object), Justin. Employers should be protected against people leaving without giving notice (e.g. in Japan, Immigration can ask questions if, when renewing your work visa, you can't provide a letter of release stating that you completed your contract and/or gave the required notice with your previous employer/sponsor*), as employees are nominally protected against being fired without notice, but when there are regulations in place that prevent a teacher from "escaping" truly intolerable situations for the duration of even their current visa, unscrupulous employers have carte blanche to be as abusive as they like.

*Japanese employers can seem slow or unwilling to release this, though, and sometimes threaten to not supply one if (more like when, with some jobs!) teachers question anything. It's a bit of a grey area, but thankfully the letter of release doesn't seem the be-all and end-all to Immigration, who apparently are sometimes just satisfied that you've found a new sponsor and thus an "assured" income with which to support yourself.