Job Discussion Forums

[geekpie]

Yes, I am a criminal. Not a very good one. But I am officially a member of those exclusive few who have a criminal record. I'll explain why, feel free to have a laugh or two at my expense.

Back in the summer of '99 I was a spotty 16 y/o fool at an english private school. My folks weren't rich, so I thought I could fit in by playing pranks. Me and a friend decided to send a letter to the school saying we'd found roaches in the kitchens, and if we didn't get $400 we'd go to the press. Far from going to plan, the school called the police and we were arrested, got to spend the night in a cell, and then taken to court. I plead guilty after figuring my reign of terror was at an end. Net result, a conviction for blackmail, $400 fine and a 3 month youth supervision order. The judge called it a stupid pank and a policeman called me a stupid prat. My folks patience had worn thin so so I left home and ended up in the army. Oh yeah, crime pays. Now I'm trying to get into university at 25....

That's the interesting part out of the way, now for the questions. I've wanted to teach in Asia for a few years now, and a criminal records check is required. I've done nothing else before or since, or have any intention to. Is this going to screw up my chances of a work visa/employment? Would it have any impact on me being able to teach kids? Any replies are much appreciated.

[Anda]

As far as I know you don't need a police check to work in China. Even Korea where you do need a police check I doubt that this offence would go against you at this stage. Get a police check done and see if they write it up for a start.

[mandalayroad]

AFAIK, only Korea and Thailand require criminal background checks, and even they seem oblivious to the fact that a clean criminal record in one state does not mean a clean record in another state since there is no central database in the US for state crimes. I haven't heard of any other countries in Asia caring so you'll probably fine to apply to anywhere except possibly Korea and Thailand. And since you were a juvenile it may not even be on your permanent. Take Anda's advice, get a background check sent to yourself and see what turns up.

[geekpie]

I guess I am worrying a little too much.....I'll order a basic disclosure check for myself and see what turns up. Dos anybody know if having a misdemeanor conviction in western countries will prevent you from working with children, either directly or from stalling your chances at interview?

[Girl Scout]

Before you get to far into the process of seriously thinking of working in Asia, do you have a BA?

[ITTP]

Hi geekpie!

Yes, you will need your BA to land a legal teaching position in Asia.
IS possible without but wouldn't recommend taking that road.

Take care and no more letters eh

Neville

ITTP Prague
Jungmannova 32
Prague 1

[Kent F. Kruhoeffer]

Nobody has mentioned this yet ...

but in the USA, your juvenile record - a record of crimes commited when you are under the age of 18 - is not available to employers and does not appear on criminal background checks. To gain access to a juvenile record requires a court order. After reading your post, it sounds like this tom foolery happened when you were 16. If that's true, it would not show up on a record check in the USA. Not sure about the law in the UK, but I wanted to throw that in for what it's worth. If I were you I'd ask a lawyer.

[Justin Trullinger]

Get the disclosure, and see if your "prank" is even on it- as many have pointed out, for a variety of reasons, it may not be. If it isn't, problem solved.

If it is, you'll want to check around with countries where you're considering working- some don't require a criminal background check, but for those which do, you'll need to look into what they're looking for- the fact of requiring a background check doesn't mean that anything on it is a disqualifier.

I've recently looked into this re Ecuador, with regards to a teacher we wanted to hire, but who had a rather silly conviction some years ago. (drunk underage in college, and behaved stupidly. No one hurt or endangered, unless injured dignity counts.) The consul, though they require a complete criminal background check, was happy to tell me that they are only looking for convictions involving hurting, endangering, exploiting, or abusing children. So blackmail commited when you were 16 probably wouldn't be an issue.

This will vary A LOT country to country, so once you see what's on your disclosure, you can get down to the real investigations you need to do.


Best of luck,
Justin


PS- with regards to "can you teach?" I have no idea. That will depend on training, preparation, desire, aptitude... But I see no reason why you won't be able to try it and find out!

[Phil_K]

As far as I remember, there was nothing asked for in immigration in Mexico that would indicate whether or not I had a criminal record, so this obviously varies from country to country.

[geekpie]

Many thanks for the replies everyone. I'm just at the end of a year long course which gives me entry to university as an adult, called HEFC. It's done by mature students as an equivalent to 'A' Levels. I've had this idea in mind since 2005, and I took a long hard look at the possibility of teaching without qualifications, but I felt that while there are places where you can still get away with it, the pool is drying up fast. I agree with the U.S. style of things in that you should receive a clean slate once you become an adult, but it isn't the same way in reality in the U.K. Whilst a juvenile conviction becomes 'spent', it remains on file. For normal jobs, you don't have to declare it, and it won't show up. However, any position involving work with children or working behind the till in a bank, and you are required to list every conviction you ever had, even if you were 10 at the time. Saying that, I work for an airline at the moment and I managed to pass the background check for that, which must have involved an enhanced disclosure.

[jillford64]

In 2006, there was no background check required for me in Mexico either.

[Teatime of Soul]

Given your situation, I would be very upfront and volunteer the whole 16 year olds "prank" roaches in the kitchen story.

Blackmail is an ugly term to an employer's ears. But the story as you told it effectively defangs the charge. Given the age and circumstances involved, I'd see no problem.

I knew a guy bounced from a military academy for the "prank" of stealing an air-to-air missile. Ouch! It really was just a prank. No humor those brass.

[geekpie]

Thanks for that. You're quite right, the name itself conjures up more images than required. If i have to mention it, mention it in full. My lawyer at the time tried to get the charge reduced to no avail. I guess the fact i was only fined $400 says a lot as well.

As far as the missle prank goes, 1: how'd he manage to smuggle the thing there, and 2: where'd he hide the thing in the meantime?

[leslie]

Bye

[geekpie]

thanks....i checked into this, as some countries do expunge your criminal record. a notable case recently has been in Austria, where josef fritzl was convicted of rape in the 60's, but the police were unaware, as there convictions can be expunged after as little as five years. however in the uk, convictions can never be expunged, and it is almost unheard of for a conviction to be ''stepped down'' from the police database, even after a period of twenty years or so. there is a rehabilitation of offenders act, which means i don't have to disclose i have a conviction except for applying to work with kids or in a bank for instance (i got a job for an airline and never listed it).
in fact, in the uk it is common practice for police to retain your dna even if you've been found innocent of a crime, and generally getting it removed takes a lot of time and hassle. there are said to be tens of thousands of people's dna on the national database who were never convicted of a crime.