|
Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
hughesie
Joined: 22 Apr 2008
Posts: 63
|
 Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:25 am Post subject: BKC contract - A complete joke! |
 |
|
I was always pro-working for BKC up until they gave me a contract for 24 hours.
Who signs a contract like that? Penalty clauses with wage deductions?
Can move you out of your apartment without your consent when you come back from holiday? Will not pay you your wages unless you fill out the attendance sheets correctly? No washing machines in your apartment but you can rent one! And those are the clauses I remember, there is plenty more stupid clauses that I'm sure that can be highlighted - I have the contract on my person somewhere.
The contract is a JOKE! I cannot believe that anyone could read through
the worst working contract I have ever seen in my life (and I have worked in South Korea) sign it and send it away.
I always wanted to work in Moscow but I would be a mug to sign that contract - I cannot justify it! Good luck if you have signed it! |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Grenouille
Joined: 01 Oct 2006
Posts: 62
Location: Moscow
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 6:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Simple. If you don't like the conditions, then don't sign the contract and don't come to Moscow. Some of us live quite well as contract teachers of BKC-IH, and thoroughly love the experiences we have here.
You always have the option of finding your own flat if you're not happy with the condition of your school-provided flat.
My own experience of BKC during the past 16 months that I've been in Moscow has been a very positive one. Despite many people complaining on various forums, the MAJORITY of teachers I talk to here are happy with their conditions and the experiences they have here.
So, if you've read the proposed contract and you think you're not going to be happy with what's on offer here, then just don't come. But don't knock it until you've tried it.
Cheers. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hughesie
Joined: 22 Apr 2008
Posts: 63
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Simple. If you don't like the conditions, then don't sign the contract and don't come to Moscow. Some of us live quite well as contract teachers of BKC-IH, and thoroughly love the experiences we have here. |
I'm not going to BKC, however - I'm allowed to state the opinion the contract is a crock - you probably are living a great life working for BKC -
but I would never ever sign a contract as bad as the one given to me - and if you signed to work under those conditions - Then you want your head seeing to.
| Quote: |
| You always have the option of finding your own flat if you're not happy with the condition of your school-provided flat. |
And find the deposit as well? On 940 dollars a month in Mosocw? Leave off!
| Quote: |
| My own experience of BKC during the past 16 months that I've been in Moscow has been a very positive one. Despite many people complaining on various forums, the MAJORITY of teachers I talk to here are happy with their conditions and the experiences they have here. |
Fair enough.
| Quote: |
So, if you've read the proposed contract and you think you're not going to be happy with what's on offer here, then just don't come. But don't knock it until you've tried it.
Cheers. |
I have already said that I'm not going! Lets discuss the contract shall we? Is the contract they made you sign a good contract? Do you think it is a fair, decent deal for any aspiring teacher? I don't think it is. Where they can sack you if you are ill for any length of time? They can move you out of your flat anytime they want, where they can make you work anywhere they want, where they deduct from your wages anytime time they want for any silly thing and most importantly - offer you no medical cover for accidents that happen outside school property. No-one asked you how much you love working there, I'm sure you do! But we are talking about the contract being a bit crap. Lets discuss that shall we?
'Don't knock it till I have tried it' I would have to be a cretin of the first order to sign that contract and work in Russia under the conditions stated! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
canucktechie
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 343
Location: Moscow
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 2:44 am Post subject: Re: BKC contract - A complete joke! |
|
|
| hughesie wrote: |
| Will not pay you your wages unless you fill out the attendance sheets correctly? |
Not contesting your other points, but your register is the written record that you have actually performed the work that you have been contracted to do.
I have had a number of jobs back home where if you didn't fill in your time sheet, you didn't get paid. And let's not forget the punch clock for industrial jobs. It's the same thing. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
GF
Joined: 08 Jun 2003
Posts: 238
Location: Tallinn
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 5:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Grenouille wrote: |
| Simple. If you don't like the conditions, then don't sign the contract and don't come to Moscow. |
Don't sign the contract but go to Moscow anyway and work for someone else. There are plenty of other opportunities. I spent five good years there and made a ton of money by NOT working for places like that. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BELS
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 402
Location: Moscow
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 2:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The tread writer has every right to air his opinion here, without the need for someone to tell him if he doesn't like it he can lump it and go home.
You appear to be oversupportive for this school. Are you a director ? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Grenouille
Joined: 01 Oct 2006
Posts: 62
Location: Moscow
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| BELS wrote: |
The tread writer has every right to air his opinion here, without the need for someone to tell him if he doesn't like it he can lump it and go home.
You appear to be oversupportive for this school. Are you a director ? |
If this was directed at me BELS, then no, I'm not a director of this school, far from it. I'm simply a teacher (no, not even a senior teacher or ADOS) who finds this experience wonderful and rewarding, even if it is low-paid. And I didn't say 'if he doesn't like it he can lump it and go home', you are misquoting me (again, that is IF you're addressing me in your message). I said if he doesn't like the contract he doesn't have to sign it and he doesn't have to come here.
Even in our 'own' countries, we have a choice when it comes to finding work. If we don't like the conditions that are offered to us by a prospective employer, then we don't accept the job. It's really very simple. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hughesie
Joined: 22 Apr 2008
Posts: 63
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Grenouille wrote: |
| BELS wrote: |
The tread writer has every right to air his opinion here, without the need for someone to tell him if he doesn't like it he can lump it and go home.
You appear to be oversupportive for this school. Are you a director ? |
If this was directed at me BELS, then no, I'm not a director of this school, far from it. I'm simply a teacher (no, not even a senior teacher or ADOS) who finds this experience wonderful and rewarding, even if it is low-paid. And I didn't say 'if he doesn't like it he can lump it and go home', you are misquoting me (again, that is IF you're addressing me in your message). I said if he doesn't like the contract he doesn't have to sign it and he doesn't have to come here.
Even in our 'own' countries, we have a choice when it comes to finding work. If we don't like the conditions that are offered to us by a prospective employer, then we don't accept the job. It's really very simple. |
You are totally missing the point.
I agree ' if you don't like it, don't come' we all have that freedom of choice to come and go wherever we want - however - that sentiment has nothing to do with the sub-standard contract being offered.
Instead of giving us this freedom of choice malarkey, why don't you try and defend the contract? The contract is complete and utter crap! You know it, I know it and most people know it who post on here know it. It is as simple as that.
What I would say is that we are not living in the 19th century anymore, I don't think a washing machine and decent support when I become ill is too much to ask! If people were a bit more discerning with what they signed and who they work for then conditions would improve! Would they not?
Canucktechie.
I have nothing against disciplinary procedures if a teacher is not doing their job properly, however there are more constructive ways to make a teacher follow rules and guidelines than grabbing money out of their pocket!
I tend to find that with jobs that have monetary penalty clauses - you end up working for them for gratis - It's not right. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BELS
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 402
Location: Moscow
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Grenouille wrote: |
| BELS wrote: |
The tread writer has every right to air his opinion here, without the need for someone to tell him if he doesn't like it he can lump it and go home.
You appear to be oversupportive for this school. Are you a director ? |
If this was directed at me BELS, then no, I'm not a director of this school, far from it. I'm simply a teacher (no, not even a senior teacher or ADOS) who finds this experience wonderful and rewarding, even if it is low-paid. And I didn't say 'if he doesn't like it he can lump it and go home', you are misquoting me (again, that is IF you're addressing me in your message). I said if he doesn't like the contract he doesn't have to sign it and he doesn't have to come here.
Even in our 'own' countries, we have a choice when it comes to finding
work. If we don't like the conditions that are offered to us by a prospective employer, then we don't accept the job. It's really very simple. |
It might be very simple, however even if he doesn't like it, he does have a right to air his views here, and they should be more than welcome here.
T same is if you are very happy to accept an un-professional income for a very professional job, you are welcome to state your views also. Nw do you live in a very nice house, with a washing machine and every other modern appliance, have nice furniture, can go on holiday at least once a year. Can you marry and keep a family with children with a responsible, and call yourself middle-class?? or of being in a professional status, or are your adult Russian sudents going to laugh at you if you informed them what you earn?
I'm a professional and I earn �7.50 an hour  And I can be a responsible mant to keep a wife and children
Yes ! Im happy with what I've got. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
canucktechie
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 343
Location: Moscow
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| hughesie wrote: |
I tend to find that with jobs that have monetary penalty clauses - you end up working for them for gratis - It's not right. |
It's not a penalty. There is no deduction from your pay. You have to leave a written record of having worked before they will pay you.
As I said, this is standard practice for many, many jobs in the West. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BELS
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 402
Location: Moscow
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Hmm! Brttiish way for some. perhaps they might be better off giving them a clock. so they can clock in and out, rather than simply give them a full salary and trust them as professionals. Hmm! factory workers or teachers. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BELS
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 402
Location: Moscow
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 9:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Im not knocking BKC, I think they are most suitable, safe and reliable for newbies coming to Russia, ang with Language Link f whom I think is a little more receptive. BKC has recognised that freelancers should be paid a lot more, because they don't have the same security of having a complete package, and are simply paid a fee as a self employed individual. They will not be provided with the cheapest shared flat in Moscow without a washing machine for example
I'm sorry, it's up to the freelancer to set the rate, they are licensed and legal , settled and to be honest I can't see them being even being bothered to contact LL or BKC from what they are promoting. They will be probably be shocked by their fees and their terms. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hughesie
Joined: 22 Apr 2008
Posts: 63
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| canucktechie wrote: |
It's not a penalty. There is no deduction from your pay. You have to leave a written record of having worked before they will pay you.
|
I never said there was! Read through what I have wrote again, all I said was that BKC won't pay you until you have filled in the attendance form to their liking. Why? Don't you think that is unecessary? I think it is.
Witholding someones wages that they have rightfully earned constitutes 'Grabbing money out of their pocket'  If BKC want to make sure their teachers fill in the registers and attendance sheets correctly then there are better ways of doing it than keeping hold of money earned by the employee - only the worst companies in the UK
(minimum wage security firms are the worst offenders) would even try and pull a stunt like that!
As for deductions, the BKC contract has a shedload of deductions of pay
for alleged slight of the contract. No medical cover worth a damn, I have it right here. We willl go through it if you want!
| Quote: |
| As I said, this is standard practice for many, many jobs in the West. |
Two bob jobs at the lower end of the scale maybe, not a so-called 'professional' career with prospects. Again - it is the worst working contract I have ever seen, and I have read through contracts for jobs in China and South Korea! None of the contracts they offered were anywhere near as bad as the contract offered by BKC.
Last edited by hughesie on Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:13 pm; edited 3 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hughesie
Joined: 22 Apr 2008
Posts: 63
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| BELS wrote: |
Im not knocking BKC, I think they are most suitable, safe and reliable for newbies coming to Russia, ang with Language Link f whom I think is a little more receptive. BKC has recognised that freelancers should be paid a lot more, because they don't have the same security of having a complete package, and are simply paid a fee as a self employed individual. They will not be provided with the cheapest shared flat in Moscow without a washing machine for example
I'm sorry, it's up to the freelancer to set the rate, they are licensed and legal , settled and to be honest I can't see them being even being bothered to contact LL or BKC from what they are promoting. They will be probably be shocked by their fees and their terms. |
I was in Russia in 1998 BELS and my dream was to come to Moscow and live and work there but there was no way I could sign the contract BKC gave me and respect my own judgement from then on in. It is a shame but the more people reject the ridiculous working and living conditions
set out by BKC the better it will be for us all in the future! Heres hoping anyway! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike_2007
Joined: 24 Apr 2007
Posts: 349
Location: Bucharest, Romania
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 6:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Do you normally expect employers to give you a washing machine? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
