Job Discussion Forums

[musicmunky]

Has anyone done a course with TEFL international? Can anyone give me feedback about the course...if it's valuable and a good course in Thailand? Thanks

[darren white]

There syllabus was a bit limited I found and I only got 10 hours teaching practice. I know the are other course out there like Global Crossroad, Bridge Linguatec, Cactus TEFL, Thailand Languagecorps. I have heard good things about them.

[Bangkok Hound]

Only ten hours? I think the norm is six hours. I've heard good things about TEFL International's regular course (120 hours + at least 6 hours observed teaching practice.) I did the course with Text and Talk. I would recommend them. SIT Tesol through AUA is also supposed to be good.

[chon nom]

We just finished the TEFL International course in Chiang Mai. The course was professional and did make you do substantial lesson
planning, etc. Postings are clearly laid out in color brochures
that show school, your apt, etc.
TEFL International's TEFL/TESOL is good all over Thailand and internationally, as long as it's not an online course
We kind of thought the ads/recruiting was a bit dodgy-sounding,
but it worked out very well

[Fike2308]

TEFL International is a rip-off and a lot of people had complained about them publicly.

Most of the complaints I've encountered have come from France, Argentina and Thailand.

I took a course with them, felt like I was getting ripped off, did some research, found them on the TEFL Blacklist and in the TEFL Hall of Shame and quit the course.

It's best to go with something like a CELTA or Oxford Seminars if you ask my opinion.

Also, feel free to read the entries I've made about TEFL International on my on-line blog: www.fike2308.blogspot.com

The first entry I made was back in Feb. I think (maybe January) so just browse my entries if you want to read a list of my complaints about them and other people's complaints.

[JFK]

I am not trying to undermine the post above this one at all, but I have always found that the best way to get concrete information on the internet is to go through official channels, and the best one in this case is the Better Business Bureau. TEFL International is a member in good standing according to the BBB. Anything else posted, positive or negative, is hard to substantiate. Good luck!

[alexcase]

The post above screams someone from the company pretending to be an impartial bystander to me

TEFLtastic blog- "All the truth that's fit to teach"- www.tefl.net/alexcase

[JFK]

[alexcase]

I'm strictly going on gut feeling here, but it still seems strange to me that you would have particularly decided to mention the BBB if you are not someone who is connected to TI at all, as BBB is an organisation I had never heard of until I started reading stuff like this remarkably similiar message from "Anonymous":

"But I did contact the Better Business Bureau and found, to my surprise, that TEFL International was a member in good standiong and had only a handful complaints in 10 years and all of these conplaints had been settled to the satisfaction of the BBB. I started feeing a bit better."

From:

http://teflblacklist.blogspot.com/2007/11/tefl-international.html

TEFLtastic blog- "All the truth that's fit to teach"- www.tefl.net/alexcase

[JFK]

Maybe its different for people not from the United States, but I've known about the BBB since I was in my teens probably. Anyway, I'm really not looking to prove myself to you, and this is getting completely off topic. Take care.

[chon nom]

Hey
So we finished the course, which, according to others was uncharacteristically good.
The problem is the schools on the 4-month. Ours is heinous. 52 to a class;
dirty; Thai teachers dont give a damn; and perhaps most importantly:
not airconditioned or even fanned.
I'd just pay for a real TEFL; you'll learn more. Then start in Korea, Japan or Taiwan. Thailand is a great place to visit, but a poor place to work

[missing_tooth]

I just finished the course recently, the special thai project where they place you in a school for four months.
plain and simple it was awful.
unprepared teachers of the course, a million answers to your question or none at all, placements in unsafe places, and just a real bad vibe.
It seemed like a shady business deal to me. Capitalism at its finest.

I would suggest to come to Thailand, look in the BKK Post and go from there. Teachers in this country are in high demand and you certainly don't need a TESOL to be a teacher here.

[Bruce]

Hello alex. Long time no communicate.

In North America, the BBB is very well known. And, given that we have a link to them on our website, it is pretty easy to make the connection. As you can see, I just became aware of this thread so I think your conspiracy theory might be a bit overblown.

Fifty two kids, no air con. THATS teaching in Thailand schools! For better or worse. Thats one of the reasons we only ask for a four (not twelve) month committment. Some people really enjoy it out there in "real" Thailand. Some don't. But it is real.
MOD EDIT

[Kurly]

I find that perhaps some people looking for honest information on TESOL courses are mislead by a few people that post quite a lot because they have their own personal grudges rather than an honest objective viewpoint.

I�d like to reply to the post by Fike2308 regarding the quality of our programs. Fike2308 has a personal grudge against TEFL International and has presented misinformation on us on a variety of forums and personal blogsites, which he posts prolifically. Before anyone reads and accepts his posts, I think you should read the history he has with TEFL International.

Below you will see why Fike2308 posts, and why most of what he writes, is untruthful and misleading. He has vowed to post until he receives an administrative refund which he is not entitled to as you can see from the conversations we had.

Fike2308 is a constant complainer who could not learn communicative teaching and has been blackmailing TEFL International, saying that if we did not return his administrative fee � he would do all possible to destroy our reputation by posting all over the website.

There were four trainers that oversaw Fike2308�s training. He refused to try communicative teaching methodologies and despite the offer for additional help and resolutions for more assistance, he consistently refused. In the end, he got very insulting and we almost filed harassment charges against him. He is still angry that he wasn�t just given his certificate, despite being incapable of communicative teaching, and he posts on numerous sites against TEFL International.

However, how could we just give this guy a certificate, to shut him up, if he can�t meet international standards such as our certificate claims? To do so, would be to devalue all of our graduates that work hard and earn their qualifications.

If you still doubt the quality of the program, I can give you close to 250 past grads of the program that will tell you it wasn�t a scam, but one of the best opportunities of their life. You could also read the full page article on the program on the front page of the June 3, 2008 Bangkok Post Education Supplement.

Documented Overview of Fike2308 vs. TEFL International

Fike2308 enrolled in our Special Thai Program in Nov. 2007. The program requires participants to undertake about four weeks of training with experienced trainers and four months of teaching practicum. As there were placements remaining on the program two weeks before the placements began, we allowed a small group to participate by having one week of on-site essential training with a highly qualified trainer, picking up the remainder non-essential course details through self-study of our course books, and continuous four-month correspondence via distance learning with an experienced trainer. This is generally the layout for our very successful PELT Program which has been working since 2004.

Fike2308 refused to try communicative methodology and for that reason we could not certify him as a TEFL International graduate. He submitted a written work via distance learning, such as his teaching portfolio, three times (post and email) and it was reviewed by four trainers at TEFL International in Ban Phe, Thailand, after daily guidance on how to proceed.

"Ok, so I will re-send you this set for the third time...the exact same set I sent you on Jan. 29th and then a second time on after going over the textbook and your e-mails, and try to fix-up/redo the lessons that aren't up to par.� (Fike2308, Feb. 8/08)

After the third attempt, his trainer replied:

"Thank you for re-submitting new lesson plans and a new Teaching Practice Portfolio (through separate emails). I appreciate you doing this and can see you are determined to learn. However, these lesson plans are not passable either. You can see the reasons why the lessons are not passable in the attached summary of the lesson plans you sent. I note that nearly every one of your activities involves you writing words or sentences on the board and students just repeating them or writing them down. These are certainly not communicative classes �. You are also very limited in what you can postulate on potential problems, objectives, etc. The fact that you state you cannot do a TEFL International Basic Model lesson in Thailand with your students tells me you are not yet prepared to be certified by us. Thousands of teachers over the last ten years have successfully been able to do Basic Model classes in Thailand -- so it is not the model itself or the students, but you not able to comprehend how these classes can work�. (STP Trainer, Feb. 8/08)

None of three trainers reviewing his work could pass him. He sent in one, rather than two DVDs of his teaching practice and the one was cracked. He said we had lost the discs but he had other copies (�I do have an extra copy of the first one I sent, I'm pretty sure I was clear about that in my e-mails� Fike2308 Feb. 8/08).

However, after reviewing the lesson plans for these classes (the first portfolio sent in), they would not have passed as the teacher was simply drilling words off the blackboard for every activity and every lesson (�Yes, I usually write words and/or phrases on the board and have students repeat after me because, if I write a sentence like, "What's your favorite food?" I find that 50 - 100% of the class can't say the words". - Fike2308, Feb 8/08). Therefore, viewing them wouldn�t have mattered.

The two other trainers that reviewed his work said:

"As Fike2308�s initial course trainer, I also reviewed his course work assignments , and it was clear that he had very little understanding of the principles behind language teaching, and further more had put very little effort into completing the tasks or learn what we were trying to teach him."(Course Director for TEFL Int�l Vietnam & STP initial trainer).


�I recall being asked to review Fike2308�s portfolio as it was submitted and re-submitted multiple times. It was nowhere near any TEFL standards. No communicative teaching involved at all.� (Ban Phe regular trainer)

The coursework was shown to the TEFL International Academic Director and under his instructions, we had to fail him.

"(STP Trainer), Fike2308 is a prime example of someone who should not get our certificate because he clearly shows he hasn't learned anything. This description of his 'rationale' such as it is, shows that he doesn't know how to teach by setting context, modeling language, and directing controlled practice activities. It's sort of like, ... if they don't know what to say then how can I get them to say it? Yes. That is exactly the point and what is missing in the lessons - i.e. how to teach."(TEFL Int�l Academic Director, Feb. 09/08)

�Hi (STP Trainer), Check previous email. You have done more than enough. He should fail on the following counts: hasn't produced evidence that he can teach using the steps we provide in our training; is not open to new learning experiences; hasn't produced the documentation required; doesn't take feedback in a positive and constructive way; If he spent half as much time learning how to teach as he has spent emailing you he would be spectacular�.(TEFL Int�l Academic Director, Feb. 10/08)

Asked why he refuses to attempt to even try communicative teaching methodology, Fike2308 replied:

�This won't be of any use to me at all in China or the next year (probably longer) because I will be working with University students who are English majors as I have in the past. If I was to continue working with kids at this school or going to teach primary students in China that program might have something to offer me. But the fact that I am working with University students means that a program on how to teach English to kids who don't speak any English will just be a waste of time for me. In fact, I imagine I'll be working with Chinese University the next few years because it will provide me with enough leisure time to study for the Mandarin Proficiency Exam in Beijing and any courses I take in China will be realted to reading, writing and speaking Mandarin. No desire to work with young speakers who speak no english at all. I'm not taking this course because I really want to.� (Fike2308, Feb. 11/08)

To which his trainer replied:

�It's not a case of whether it is of use to you in your upcoming teaching position. We do not certify teachers because they can teach only one age / language level and not any other. You have to show us you have learned theories and techniques from our program that allow you to plan for teaching in many situations - even teen Thai learners that you say watch pornographic movies in your class. Again, your reluctance to learn what we are teaching because of an external excuse indicates you are not ready to accept training through distance learning and be certified by us. What we are teaching you in our program with these Thai students should not be accrued as "simply a waste of time for me". (STP Trainer, Feb. 11/08)

Believing that this particular trainee needed to see the methodology in action, we offered him two other chances to gain the training. First, we suggested a week or few days extra on-site training at any of our offices in Thailand (to see how our methodology does work in action). Fike2308 refused, stating he had to return to China after his teaching placement.

We then also offered him to take a little more hands-on free-of-charge training in China at either of our two locations, at a schedule convenient for him to attend.

"Mike, what you have outlined sounds fair. Our next course in Zhuhai kicks off on Monday Feb. 18. lf wants to take up the option you have offered him, he is more than welcome to come, observe and in turn we can include him in the TP roster, if necessary. The ball is now in his court. We could also discuss observing TP in other future courses as well if he wishes. Cheers�. (Course Director for TEFL Int�l China, Feb. 11/08)

Again he refused, saying:

�Thanks for the offer, I appreciate it but if I'm in China I definetly won't need any help. Chiense students are grewat to teach. If they want to send me a DVD or something I can watch it but I just want to finish this thing up BEFORE I leave (Thailand). Let's either finish this up or just send me a refund and call it a day. Either one will work for me.� (Fike2308, Feb. 11/08)

When we informed him again that we could not pass him if he couldn�t teach communicatively, Fike2308 began to immediately send numerous very insulting emails on a daily basis to the company founder and his two main trainers. Here are a few for example:

�Then why the �beep� did your monkey-ass ask me to send you the same thing (teaching portfolio) three times? Are you retarded or what? I swear to Buddha you are the biggest IDIOT I have ever met in my life. Do you even have a degree from a real University? I doubt it. I should be the one teaching you. Seriously, pull your head out of your �beep� and get it together you �beeping� moron�[/i]. (Fike2308, Feb 12/08)

[i]"If you guys don't work with me then I'll have no choice but to post a few dozen blogs on various esl websites notifying teachers of this scam you guys are running because this feels like a scam more than anything. So, if you people continue to work against me rather than with me then I'll have to what I think it right and warn people about your company�. (Fike2308, Feb. 12/08)

�Hasn't either one of you �beeps� wondered why no one has anything good to say about you? You people behave a lot like Scientologists and that's just sad. If I were to guess I'd say that Mike is either Canadian and/or has no �beep�. It's the only explanation. I'm sure he doesn't have a degree from a real University and I can't wait for more people to send their complaints about this little show you people are running to the American Embassy, FBI, BBB and anyone else who can end this criminal activity of yours. Enjoy your future lives in prisoin where you all belong�. (Fike2308, Feb. 13/08)

�The jig is up Bruce, it's time to get my money back. So, now I see that you're just a petty criminal. I expect to receive a FULL refund before the end of next week or I am turning you into the FBI, the BBB, and the authorities in Oregon. I want my money back and I want it now�.(Fike2308, Feb 14/08)

Fike2308 did not pay full course fees as he was on our subsidized Special Thai Program. He was looking for just the administrative fee back. He threatened he would continue to send harassing emails, post misinformation on the Internet, and inform authorities of his case � until he receives his course admin fee back.

With these emails continuing, dozens by the day, we decided he had now crossed the professional behavior required on international standardized TESOL courses. The founder requested that staff no longer communicate with Fike2308 and we replied to him as follows:

�(STP Trainer), you have tried diligently to help this �gentleman�. I say we now officially call him a fail. Please contact the BBB (and the FBI). Good luck with your future endeavors. You might try TEFLWatch or esl judge. I have cc�ed both admin for the sites. I do not know the info for FBI. BBB is http://welcome.bbb.org/. TEFL International is based in Oregon. If I receive any more Emails from you, I will consider it harassment and immediately contact the police both locally and in Kalasin�. (TEFL Int�l Founder, Feb 14/08)

�Fike2308, some of your emails are VERY insulting, and disappointing after I have spent weeks and weeks - every day -- trying to help you learn what we are teaching on our program. As Bruce has instructed me, I will no longer correspond with you and am blocking your email address so as not to receive further harassment. From your current emails, I can add unprofessional behaviour to your seeming incompetence as a teacher. I am retaining all of your emails in a file and I wish you luck with your legal action in trying to obtain anything further from TEFL International�. (STP Trainer, Feb. 14/08)

Fike2308 did not cease to communicate with us and sent more emails, even weeks later, he was still emailing, unable to accept the fact that his failure was due to his lack of ability to try.

�(Fellow trainee) passes because she works for a recruiting agency TEFL is affiliated with while the native speakers from America and England need "more training" in spite of the fact that we all speak English better than her." (Fike2308)

Again another untruth. The program graduate he discusses here worked very hard and when work was not up to standard, she took the trainer�s advice, reviewed and re-submitted her work. She earned her qualifications by meeting the standards, unlike Fike2308.

Months later, TEFL International was still receiving emails from Fike2308 demanding a refund. For example,:

�Hi Mike, still waiting on that refund! I am currently enjoying my new job in China where no TEFL Certificate is required at all. In fact, TEFL Certificates are kind of considered a joke here. I've had a few people send me a link which indicates you are now looking for a new job.....how interesting! Anyway, when you are ready to refund my money let me know.� (Fike2308, April 14/08)

"I'm not demanding a Certificate from you guys because it's totally worthless as we both more. You guys are about as legit as a degree mill so I really do not want anything with the "TEFL International" name on it. I'll "give up" when I get my money back�.(Fike2308, April 14/08)

He was instructed again on the reasons we could not pass him, - his inability to try communicative teaching, his work below standard and his unprofessional conduct. It was also reiterated that we made numerous generous attempts to help him, by providing more one-to-one assistance of trainer to trainee then anyone else on his program, and with generous offers for more on-site training. He replied with:

�I didn't fail.....I resigned from the course and asked for a refund after I read all the dirt about you guys on-line. It's like me quitting a job and then the boss trying to fire me after I quit to make it seem like I was a bad worker. It's obvious you were only trying to swindle me out of more cash by sending me to another branch and then collect some kind of kickback. You aren't fooling anyway "buddy" so drop the act�.(Fike2308, April 14/08)


So he was then told after the above email:

�FYI - since you have admitted to withdrawing from our program, let me remind you of the terms you agreed to before entering the program:
> > SPECIAL THAI PROJECT
> Terms & Conditions
> 3. After successful application, you will be asked to pay for the non-refundable administration fee of US$500 to confirm your place in the project.
> 4. If for any reason you wish to subsequently cancel your place on the course after your fees have been paid, TEFL International cannot provide any refund except for exceptional circumstances. The project organizer�s decision is final. In any case, the payment is non-refundable. The reason for this is that the staffing for the course and accommodation have fixed costs which have to be paid for in advance and based on a specific number of course members in the group. The college cannot guarantee to replace course members who subsequently drop out." (STP Trainer, April 14/08)

At which point Fike2308 replied:

�TEFL International cannot provide any refund except for exceptional circumstances". I'd say my circumstances are rather "exceptional". Wouldn't you?�(Fike2308, April 14/08)

We could not find a solution to help this disgruntled and incapable trainee. Although he continued to email our founder as of end of April and is still posting as of two weeks ago.

On one site, he quoted one of his colleagues on the program as saying the trainers were incompetent and the program was terrible. When we contacted that colleague to address her complaint, as is TEFL International policy on complaints, here is what she said:

�Dear (STP Trainer), GOOD GOD NO I did not post anything on his website. In fact, I did quite the opposite--I told him that despite its kinks, I really enjoyed our program and wouldn't trade it for anything. I also asked him to leave me out of whatever he was trying to do. I suppose I could try to dig up the emails that were exchanged between us but would rather not waste the time or �..I am actually angry that he involved me (and clearly misquoted me) after I asked him to leave me alone and leave me out of whatever he was trying to do...I am sorry that my name is involved in something negative against you as I specifically tried to avoid this whole thing. Good luck ...and at least for whatever he has quoted from me, you can trust it's bulls �beep�. I had a great time in Ban Phe and I know plenty of others that did as well." (anonymous colleague, May 5/08)

This colleague was directed to the misquote and then sought out legal action to the misinformation that Fike2308 posts on the Internet.

�Dear (STP Trainer), What I had tried to express to Fike32308 was that IF wrongs had been committed then surely they should be made right, but that overall I (we) enjoyed the course and wouldn't trade the experience for anything. I know several other TEFLers echoed those thoughts in emails to . (Of course, he fails to quote any of the positives that we all mentioned!). At the advice of a coworker, I tried to contact Fike2308 to ask him to either remove the quote or remove my name. This coworker told me that it is illegal to post someone's quote without permission and that I should tell Fike2308 that if he did not heed my request, I could take legal action. Do you know about any of the legalities of quoting someone on a blog??! Do you guys have a lawyer working on this at all?

Fike2308's response to my email was : "I'm pretty sure I don't need permission to publicize things people e-mail to me....and you can quote me on that." Followed by "Do I need your permission to forward this e-mail to my friends and lawyer? Oops, too late!" Do you know if there is anything I can do? Anyway to report him to his ISP??�
(anonymous colleague, May 29/08)

Here are what some of his other colleagues and staff have said about Fike2308 on the program:

�Well, was quite a difficult teacher, a whiner to a point but still grateful if he's being attended to. He was a problem teacher to some point and hard to please. He was made to attend the tefl course because of Chula project... he didn't last with Chula because he had problems with the Thai teachers and his landlord.�(Anonymous Media Kids admin staff that helped Fike2308)

�Because 's a native speaker he thinks he can do no wrong, but he's a boring teacher. I observed him in class when we did evaluations on our teachers.... with his monotonous voice .... it was a boring class and the students only got interested in a video he put on. This is one typical angry man who thinks he's ever knowing and can please everyone. He couldn�t accept his failure in the end and that's prompting him to do this...( post lies on the Internet)".
(Anonymous colleague who took the Special Thai Program with Fike2308)

Fike2308 is a good example of how uncertified teachers, who are hired, are painting the TESOL industry with a bad name. Fike2308 could not hold down his teaching job in Korea for more than five months, nor was he able to handle his next two teaching jobs in China for more than a semester or 6 months either (in Hebei and then in Wuhan). He could use with learning �how to teach�, but instead tries to discredit methodology because he�s unable to learn it.

In conclusion, you can see how one trainee can become a nightmare for trainers and administrators, despite the hard work they put in. But that�s their job.

But please, disregard Fike2308's posts (or question them very seriously) if they come from this source. He may also post as �anonymous�, �Fike2308�, �Fike, �Brandon�, �BAF� and we believe �Patricia Armstrong� and �Soney Boshim�.

I�m happy to respond to any requests for further information on this case or other complaints. I have a lot of integrity as those that know me will attest. I would not work for TEFL International in PR or in the academic end, if I didn�t feel it was a good thing doing good for others.


Best,

Mike FitzGerald
Director of Public Relations / Lead Trainer
TEFL International